Cheesey
14 years ago
I'm only going by what i have seen and heard from Muslim women. I guess they all could be lying to me.

I have a question for all those that say they are SO "pissed off" at me for my statements. How about getting MORE pissed off at THE RADICAL MUSLIMS THAT ARE MURDERING INNOCENT PEOPLE. Have I killed anybody?
Maybe those assholes should stop blowing up people and places.

Oh.....and someone brought up the Columbine killers and said they were supposedly Christians. WHERE did you get THAT info? CNN? (The Communist News Network)
They were NOT "Christians". They planned their killings on Adolph Hitler's birthday. AND, they confronted a young girl who WAS a professed Christian. They told her they would kill her unless she denounced her faith in Christ. She didn't do it. THEY PUT A BULLET INTO HER HEAD.
Again, it seems acceptable to blast Christians. People that lean to the left do that all the time. Yet, again, they run to defend ANY religion.......unless it's Jews or Christians. Yet they don't see that as hypocritical.
Go figure.
I'm sure there are people here that agree with me. But they won't speak up for fear of being ganged up on by people on the left. Nothing surprises me anymore.
The same people that talk about THEIR rights to "free speach" blast anyone that disagrees with them, and name calls.
But again....it's ok for them, not for me.
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porky88
14 years ago

Please.....show me where Christians have done bombings in other countries.
Do Christians go to Arab nations and blow themselves and innocent people up? Do they go to Spain, Germany, and all over Europe doing so?
Like i have stated over and over. Muslims that are here deserve protection if they are law abiding citizens.
The problem i (and MANY others) have with them wanting to build ANYTHING around ground zero is this: The group that attacked the World Trade Center were Muslim. Like it or not, it's the TRUTH.
They can build their WHATEVER it is ANYWHERE. Yet they chose THAT place? WHY exactly? (I think you know why, but i doubt you will admit it).
They could have taken the high road and gone elsewhere to build. They HAD to know it would be a lousy idea to try to build there. Yet they ignored the feelings of the survivors and the families of the dead by trying to force that they want to go THERE.
I think they show NO compassion.
So much for showing the world how loving and compassionate there religion is, hey?

"Cheesey" wrote:



How far do we go with this? Should Muslims not be allowed to shop in that area? I would assume there are restaurants nearby too. Should they not be able to eat there? If you can't pray there, I assume you wouldn't want them living in that area. Though the fact is that quite a few do I believe. It's New York after all. Should the government seize their property? How far should this line go? I guess that's what I'm wondering.

The board that is behind the center also has Christians and I believe Jews on it as well. So I don't think the whole point there is building it so they can say they conquered us. This isn't a Muslim only project.

There will be people out there like a Bin Laden that will probably release a message saying it's a monument put up to remember 911 and what they did. Why? Because the terrorists want to poor fuel on the paranoid fire that has been lit by propaganda in an election season.

If they don't build it there, that same guy will come out and say that look at Americans. They preach intolerance, but they kick us out whenever they get the chance.

My point is damn if you do and damn if you don't. So I argue who gives a flying frak about what they think. It shouldn't matter. The same people who are saying well we should consider what our enemies think are the same people who don't care what they think when America invades a country like Iraq.

It's sad that this is now an issue. It really shouldn't be.
doddpower
14 years ago

My point is damn if you do and damn if you don't. So I argue who gives a flying frak about what they think. It shouldn't matter. The same people who are saying well we should consider what our enemies think are the same people who don't care what they think when America invades a country like Iraq.

"Porky88" wrote:



That's what I was saying, Porky. Of course the small minority of extremist are going to say ANYTHING that will anger / invoke fear is its enemies. And why not? It works. The bottom line is it doesn't matter how they see it. The fact if America wants to proclaim it is the best country in the world, then it damn sure better act like it. That means not stooping to others levels just because they might not allow such things.
14 years ago

Ah, yes, I knew someone would bring the idea that Muslim women are men's property. Detractors of other religions and cultures are so predictable. This is a common charge leveled disdainfully at past cultures as well -- as some sort of proof that women must have been oppressed in those days.

The truth is that yes, indeed, under the strictest letter of the law, women are men's property in many cultures and were so also in the past. But is that really such an alien concept in our culture? Even here in the United States, under the law, children are very literally their parents' property. As a parent, I can do essentially anything I want (within reason) to my children. As long as I do not cause them any physical or emotional harm, I can be as arbitrary or unreasonable as I like . . . and so can all of you. Does that mean all -- or even most -- American children are oppressed? Of course not; the idea is laughable.

One can never get a good idea of how a culture operates by looking at its laws alone. One must always take the human element, which by and large is fairly universal, into consideration. There are thousands of laws in the United States that impose penalties -- many rather draconian in nature -- for various offenses. How often are these laws enforced to the strictest letter of the law? Rarely. Our judicial system takes into consideration mitigating factors. So it is around the world. Yes, our media seizes on the worst and most spectacular cases, because that is what gets ratings. They do the same thing here: they only report on the very worst of cases.

The Bible teaches that the man is the head of the household. Does this mean that the man rules the home? No, it means that no matter what happens in that household, good or bad, the man bears ultimate responsibility. So it is in cultures in which women are technically men's property. That doesn't mean men can do as they please with women; it means men bear ultimate responsibility for the health, welfare, safety, and behavior of their women.

Do some men abuse this authority? Of course. When I was in Germany, I saw a Turkish man slap his woman in the face on the street in full view of everyone. Though I was furious with him, did I draw the conclusion that all Turks abuse women? No, I simply realized that some Turkish men are assholes toward women. My father is supposedly a devout Christian and an upstanding citizen, but he's beaten my mother on many an occasion. Does that mean that Christianity condones the abuse of women or that most Christian men abuse women? No, it means that there are assholes like my father who fail to live up to the standards of their religion.

Let me remind you that the United States has some of the highest rape, sexual assault, murder-of-women rates in the world. Before we go trying to pluck the specks from other cultures' eyes, maybe we should plug the logs out of our own eyes.

Cheesey, have you ever been outside the United States? Have you seen the world? Have you seen how people in other countries -- not just displaced minorities in bad socioeconomic conditions -- live on a day-to-day basis?

I have. I've watched married couples interact in places like Iraq and Qatar. I've seen the adoration shining in husbands' and wives' eyes as they walk down the streets hand in hand. I've seen the tender way they care for their children. I've seen men collapse in solitary confinement, begging to be able just to hold the pictures of their wives and children. I've watched the panic in parents' eyes when their children experienced injuries we might consider laughably minor in this country. I've also seen victims -- women, children, and men alike -- of abuse so vile I wanted to kill the perpetrators.

But I've seen that in my own country too.

I would say that the average married couple I saw in the Middle East was far deeper in love and showed far more respect for each other than the average couple I see on a daily basis in the United States or saw in Germany. Of course there were exceptions; there are everywhere. But women there seemed to genuinely adore their men.

I must say that it's more than a little misogynistic of you to simply dismiss out of hand the reports of Middle Eastern women themselves, simply because you happen to think they don't know what they're talking about. Who are you to tell them what is and is not oppression? You should read the book Princess: A True Story of Life Behind the Veil by Jean Sasson, which relates the first-person account of a real Saudi princess. Yes, the story isn't all pretty, but neither is it as gritty as you seem to think.

A woman once told me that "patriarchy was invented by women to get men out of the house." From what I've seen of patriarchal cultures, I think she's right. No matter what our feminist-driven media may tell you (and yes, most conservative women are bitter feminists who are deeply resentful of men), women run patriarchal cultures.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Most enlightening thing I have read in a long time.
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zombieslayer
14 years ago

The fact if America wants to proclaim it is the best country in the world, then it damn sure better act like it. That means not stooping to others levels just because they might not allow such things.

"doddpower" wrote:



+1 for this.

The Bill of Rights says that we're not supposed to take one religion over another.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



Whether you love Islam or hate Islam, Muslims have the same Right to worship as anyone else.

So do Satanists.

So do Christians.

So do Pagans.

So do Hindus.

So do Buddhists.

So does anyone else.

By the way, my God can beat up your God. Nah na na na nah nah.
My man Donald Driver
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Cheesey
14 years ago
I don't care where they build their "projects". I hope they build one on every block. I hope they marry your sisters/daughters and beat the crap out of them if they don't do EXACTLY what their owne....i mean HUSBANDS say.

Sorry......i just wonder why people get so pissed off at me for stating factual information, but give murderers a free pass.
Yeah.....getting pissed off at me will stop the bombings.
Yup.....sure will.
I should have known when i entered this thread that it was a bait to see who would be stupid enough to say anything not politically correct. You got me! I'm the dumb one! I should have known it was a trap. Shows you how stupid i really am.
And they wonder......ah.....screw it.
UserPostedImage
14 years ago
Who here is "pissed" at you, Cheesey? Who is saying they want your sister and daughter beaten? I think it sounds like sadness more than anything else, but I may just be speaking for myself.
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Cheesey
14 years ago
I'd have to go back and look. But someone did say i pissed them off. And i was called a bigot.
Pretty nasty shit if you ask me.
People shouldn't start threads if they don't want anyone that disagrees to post in them.
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Cheesey
14 years ago
Hmmm.....found out where the "bigot" comment came from.....Mass.

I'll just shut up and keep my thoughts to myself from now on.
That way i won't be attacked at least.
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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Cheesey, you are a wonderful human being in so many ways, but you seem to be incapable of forming a logical argument. Even when you do make use of facts, they seem to be cherry picked, with the result that your arguments are almost always purely emotional in nature. I wouldn't have a problem with this, if you ever once addressed a single point I made. But you never do. Most of the time it's obvious you haven't actually read what I (or anyone else) has said, or at the very least, you haven't comprehended the intent behind our words. The vast majority of your arguments are purely strawmen that you joyfully knock down, much to the befuddlement of the rest of us, who wonder where they come from -- since they have no relevance to what any of us actually said.

For example, MassPackersFan never called you a bigot. He said that the things you were saying were bigoted in nature. There's a difference between saying that someone is stupid and telling them to stop acting stupid. These are the finer shades of argument that you seem not to understand. You try to perform surgery with a club, and it just doesn't work.

Slow down, Cheesey. Stop flying off the handle so quickly. You have many worthy things to say. Often I actually agree with your underlying premises! But the way you express them tends to be illogical and even irrational. Take the time to understand what the rest of us are saying instead of misconstruing our words all the time.

I think you might find our opinions aren't so far off after all.
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