Zero2Cool
15 years ago
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Green Bay It was February 1996.

The Green Bay Packers had just finished an 11-5 regular season that included an NFC Central Division crown and a trip to the NFC Championship Game. Those Packers ranked seventh in the NFL in offense and 14th in defense.

General manager Ron Wolf and head coach Mike Holmgren both were a little more than four years into their jobs of turning around a moribund franchise. Quarterback Brett Favre was in his football prime, having just turned 26 years old.

Now, fast forward to today.

Again, the Packers are coming off an 11-5 regular season, although this one didn't include a division title and featured a first-round playoff loss. The 2009 Packers, though, ranked sixth in total offense and No. 2 in total defense.

General manager Ted Thompson just completed his fifth year on the job, while McCarthy - like Holmgren - wrapped up Year 4. Quarterback Aaron Rodgers - like Favre - is 26.

In so many ways, there are enormous parallels between where the Packers are today and where the organization was 14 years ago. But there's also one enormous difference.

In 1996, Wolf sensed just how close his team was to an NFL title.

He used free agency to sign defensive tackle Santana Dotson, kick returner Desmond Howard, wideout Don Beebe, left tackle Bruce Wilkerson, linebacker Ron Cox and traded for safety Eugene Robinson.

That group all played huge roles the following season as the Packers won their first Super Bowl in 29 years.

Thompson has had four months to improve his roster since the Packers' 51-45 overtime loss to Arizona in the NFC wild-card round. His scorecard currently reads: zero free agent signings, zero trades.

With such little activity these past four months, the question begs: Can Thompson get this team over the hump, as his mentor Wolf did 14 years ago?

Championships vs. games
"You have to make a decision as a general manager: Do you want to win championships or do you want to win games," said former safety LeRoy Butler, who made four Pro Bowls during his 12-year Packer career. "Ted's going to win games because of Aaron (Rodgers) and because he drafts well. But unless he changes his philosophy when it comes to free agency, it's going to be hard to win championships.

"Right now, the gap between Minnesota and the Packers is huge if Brett (Favre) comes back. How are the Packers going to close that gap by just drafting a bunch of young guys? The thing is, Ted doesn't believe in getting a 30-year-old veteran to help you do that. He wants to fill his holes with young guys."

After the 1995 season, one in which the Packers fell at Dallas, 38-27, in the NFC Championship Game, Green Bay knew just how close it was to greatness. And Butler still fondly remembers the flight home that day.

"Coach (Mike) Holmgren stood up and thanked everybody for the season and all that," Butler said. "Then, he said he thinks he knows the strategy to beat the Cowboys and the 49ers and teams like that. We all started getting pretty excited."

That strategy was to find veteran help to complement a roster that was close to a title. And while free agency can be a hit-and-miss proposition, almost everything Wolf touched that off-season turned to gold.

Dotson was a 15-game starter at right defensive tackle and was second on the team with 5 1/2 sacks. Robinson led the Packers with six interceptions and fit perfectly in the secondary with Butler.

Howard shattered the NFL record for punt return yardage in a single season with 870. Then Howard had a memorable postseason, highlighted by his 244 all-purpose yards in Super Bowl XXXI, which earned him most valuable player honors.

Wilkerson stepped in at left tackle when rookie John Michels and veteran Gary Brown both flopped.

Beebe had 11 catches and 220 yards during a regular-season win over the 49ers.

Cox was the Packers' No. 4 linebacker but then started in the NFC Championship Game and the Super Bowl after middle linebacker George Koonce tore his ACL.

"I remember in the locker room after the Dallas game, a lot of us were crying," said Robert Brooks, a wideout with Green Bay from 1992-'98. "I was crying, Reggie (White) was crying, Leroy (Butler) was crying. Just a whole bunch of us because we knew how close we were, and we almost felt shameful that we hadn't got it done.

"But then that off-season, Ron Wolf did a lot of great things. We had a lot of the pieces in place already, and then he went and filled in all the gaps. And when we returned for training camp, we knew. We knew were about to have a special year."

Compare that to the 2010 off-season, where Thompson has been quiet.

To Thompson's credit, he's re-signed unrestricted free agents Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher. But he also let free agent Aaron Kampman get away and hasn't brought in a single veteran.

Instead, Thompson elected to fill the holes on his roster with draft picks that aren't likely to become major contributors until at least 2011.

"Oh no, I disagree," Thompson said of the premise his draft picks won't be impact players immediately. "I think we got guys that can come in and make an impact."

Butler, like many others throughout Packer Nation, isn't buying that argument.

"I just think that everybody has a pretty short window in this sport, maybe like three years," Butler said. "And when you get your chance, you have to go for it. What have the Packers done to show you they're going for it?

"I know with our team, we kind of did it like the Jets are doing it right now. We mixed some veterans in with our other guys, but Ted just keeps sticking with those young guys. And the only way they're ever going to get over the top is to hit home runs in the draft."

Brooks has a slightly different take than Butler.

"I know we added some veterans to help us get over the hump," Brooks said. "But if you've got players who can step in and play, it doesn't matter if they're rookies or if they've been around a long time. Me personally, I'm really excited about this Packers team coming up."

So are the Packers themselves. In fact, after the recent draft, McCarthy gushed: "We're a better football team in 2010 today than we have been in the past in my opinion. . . . I really like the way our football team looks on paper."

The question remains, though, has Thompson done enough to catch teams like Minnesota and New Orleans in his own conference?

As Butler noted, the window for success in the NFL is small.

For example, the Packers went 37-11 from 1995-'97, played in three NFC title games, two Super Bowls and won a championship. Favre also was at the height of his brilliance, winning three MVP's during that time.

Then, free agency, coaching changes, age and injury took a toll. And it took until 2007 before the Packers reached another NFC title game.

Window is now
The window for these Packers appears to be right now. Rodgers is entering his sixth year in the league and his combination of physical skills and knowledge of the offense will never be greater. McCarthy has put his stamp all over this team. And barring anything unforeseen, Green Bay will return 21 of 22 preferred starters this season.

Fourteen years ago, Wolf decided players such as George Teague, John Jurkovic, Fred Strickland, Harry Galbreath and Anthony Morgan - all starters in 1995 - weren't good enough to be part of a Super Bowl roster. Wolf replaced each and every one during an aggressive off-season.

Thompson has done just the opposite and will bring back virtually the same team in 2010 that he had 12 months ago. His hope is there will be enough improvement from within to catch the league's elite teams.

Which way is right?

"I'll still take Ron's way because it's proven," Butler said. "Ted should have learned last year that you can't go into the playoffs with Jarrett Bush as your third corner. Your big move in free agency can't be Frank Walker.

"I'll give Ted a decent grade because his formula has worked as far as turning it around from 6-10 (in 2008). But how do you get to 13-3 now? That's the big question."

One Thompson must now prove he can answer.


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Zero2Cool
15 years ago

This is what I've been talking about for the last 2+ years. Thompson can squeeze a nickel until the buffalo shits, but he'll never get to the big dance with his philosphy on FA.

"I-Am-Ignorant" wrote:

I'm not going to say I've known this or been saying this for years, that's just talk that no one gives a damn to hear. Although I will agree, that its in my opinion difficult to get over that hump if you don't apply a little push .... ie some outside talent.

With that said, who should we have snagged to fill the gaps? The only person I can think of that could help us this whole off season would be Shawne Merriman and the Chargers are dicking around with him big time.

For trades, it takes two, sometimes three parties to agree.
For free agents, it takes two.
There also has to be a player that fits your scheme and team.

Often times we all seem to forget those little facts.
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Rockmolder
15 years ago

He used free agency to sign defensive tackle Santana Dotson



I can't give you anything in return right now. Dotson knew how to get pressure. We haven't signed a D-lineman like that.

Kick returner Desmond Howard



Desmond didn't even have a WR number to start the season. He was nowhere near a big FA signing. He was no bigger than Sam Shields is for us now. It didn't even look like he'd make the roster.

Wideout Don Beebe



Beebe was an average player. If he filled a hole at WR, we filled a hole at LB with Chillar.

Left Tackle Bruce Wilkerson



Very much a bandaid. But one I would've liked last year.

Linebacker Ron Cox



Seriously? I'll give you Duke Preston.

And traded for safety Eugene Robinson



Again, I'll give you this one. He looked to be done when we signed him. Much like Woodson.

Now I'm not saying that Ted shouldn't sign anyone, but most of these really wheren't ground breaking signings. Most of these guys you could pick up in the draft at a later round.

That said, I wouldn't mind Ted filling some gaps. Adalius Thomas, for instance, would be worth a look.
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
The only signing that was 'big' at the time was Dotson. Robinson would be second in line as he was still solid in his waning years.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago
I love Leroy Butler. He calls it as he sees it, and usually I agree with him.

In this case, I don't. I like what Ted Thompson is doing, and think we have the veteran leadership. I see what Ted Thompson is doing. He's not a win now guy. Instead, he's a guy who's gambling to build a dynasty.

It's one of those things - which one would you rather have? A team that has a good chance of winning a SB in a 3-year window, or a team that has a good chance of being a dynasty? I'd take the latter.

The window is closing for some of our veterans though. Woodson is 33. Was elite last year. He may be elite for another 3 years. He's a freak specimen. Driver is 35. His window is closing fast. As hard a worker as he is, he'll slip to #2 this year and #3 next year. Love the guy, but reality bites.

Al Harris is 35. His window is closing fast. He has lost a step and who knows how he will be after he comes back this year from that injury.

Tausch is 32 and Cliffy is 33. I don't see them both playing 19 games this year. Just don't see it happening.

Every single player I listed is a starter, and a key starter. I like that Ted Thompson has kept the team in tact. Teams need to be mostly together as their communication improves. It's like a relationship. Those of you who have been in a relationship know that you had hurdles to overcome and you overcome them by communicating. If you don't communicate, you fail and the relationship dies.

Same thing in sports. Communication is big, and we saw a lot of miscommunication defensively last year. This year it should be better.

Here's one more reality - who is really out there? I mean, who can we really get? There are no Reggie Whites out there. There aren't. Is there a Eugene Robinson out there for us to grab? No. Our holes were in OL depth, DB depth, and generating more pressure. Those were our 3 weaknesses, and the FA class wasn't exceptional in any of those 3 areas. You have to deal with what you got.
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
Normally, I'd say "Thompson knows more about this than LeRoy does."

On the other hand, Butler agrees with me. :)

What's a guy to do?

Sit back and wait, I guess. I've said it before -- this is the put up or shut up year for the Thompson plan. He's played the "potential" card over and over in his five years. It's time for potential to start raking in big pots.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Pack93z
15 years ago
We may have veterans on this team.. and more specifically on this defense.. but we were lacking veteran leadership on the defense late last season.

Was that a product of Harris and/or Kampman missing alone?

All I know is that the group that took the field last season late on the defense.. there was a definite lack of leadership.. and that is looking directly upon some of the supposed leaders on the defense.. the ones that talk it.. the Barnett's of the world..

So unless Harris is that missing piece or someone else truly stands up and takes that leadership role upon the field.. I expect some struggle.. might not be to the magnitude of the Steelers or Cardinal games.. but struggles just the same on the defensive side of the ball.

On offense.. Aaron might be very talented and all.. but there is no doubt that he has that leadership juice within him.. that and quiet little ole' Mark Tauscher.

But I said it after the season.. I said it prior to FA.. and before the draft... we need a guy or two on the defense that can become a leader.. not a mouth piece or a celebration guru.. a leader. I think that is our "Missing Link".

Sir Charles plays his ass off and does the little things.. but I happen to think he is uncomfortable taking the bull by the horns of the other players.. we need someone to demand it from the other 10.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
15 years ago
Wade - I've often taken LeRoy Butler over Ted Thompson and MM. This time, I don't.

This will offend Ted Thompson lovers, but I'll say it anyways. Butler has been there. He has his ring. Ted Thompson & MM don't. Butler also has a lot higher IQ than people give him credit for. He's no dumb jock. He knows his shit. He knows what it takes to win. But I stand by what I said in my post.

Pack - Yes, the D unraveled but was that lack of veteran leadership or lack of communication? You can have a couple in their 50s who still don't know how to talk to each other. Age helps, but it's not the end all, be all.

I honestly don't know where to put the blame, but I strongly think (or maybe just strongly hope) these issues get resolved with one more year together. It was a completely different D than the year before so I'm under the impression it's more working out kinks than lack of veteran leadership.

As for Sir Charles, we each have our way of teaching. Sir Charles teaches by example. Maybe the others need to do more watching of how it's done.

As for grabbing someone to lead - no, Nick Barnett needs to step up and assume that position. He has the brains and leadership qualities to do it. He just needs to do it.
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Blank402
15 years ago
Free agency can be a good method to improve your team, but I hate how this article makes it sound like you HAVE to spend in free agency to get to the Superbowl.

What big name free agency acquisitions did the Steelers or Giants have that "put them over"?
blank
macbob
15 years ago
The FAs listed are just one years signings. I think the key signing was Reggie White. His presence encouraged others (Keith Jackson, Sanatan Dotson) to sign in Green Bay for an opportunity to get a ring.

I like Ted's approach overall, but I think Wolf had it right--you have to be more aggressive in the FA market. There are only so-many ways to improve your team (draft, internally through off season work, etc). You can't afford to tie your hands in one area--you put yourself at a disadvantage compared to other teams (like the Packers of the mid 90s) who are working FA correctly.

Yes, you have a risk of overpaying for an overpriced has-been (e.g., Joe Johnson), but in the draft you have the risk of overpaying for an overpriced never-will-be (Harrell???). My opinioin, though, is that if you approach FA the same way you do the draft (do a similar analysis of the players, etc) you can minimize the risk. In the competitive NFL you just can't afford to not take advantage of all opportunities to improve your team (especially if other teams are).
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Mucky Tundra (1h) : beast, reading about what happened, it sounded like one of those "two guys collide and are moving slow afterwards" type of deals
beast (3h) : I believe Musgrave has been injured every single season since at least a Sophomore in highschool
packerfanoutwest (5h) : Matt LaFleur: “Highly unlikely” Jordan Love plays more this preseason
dfosterf (7h) : Doubs, Savion Williams, LVN, Musgrave all banged up to one degree or another, missing one here I forget
Zero2Cool (9h) : RB Tyrion Davis-Price is signing with the Green Bay Packers.
Zero2Cool (9h) : zero help, dominated. preseason
beast (10h) : QB Jordan Love has surgery
beast (10h) : Martha said Morgan had a lot of help, I didn't watch the OL so I can't say.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers LT Jordan Morgan did not allow a single pressure across 23 pass-blocking snaps vs. Jets last night, per PFF
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : With buckeye and the reasonable couple, we're currently sitting at 10
buckeyepackfan (10-Aug) : Just posted to re-up on our FFL.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : If healthy after, then thats all I care. Well, no drops would be nice
wpr (10-Aug) : I made it through the 1st Q.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Just gotta figure out how.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Could have been a worse start, so there is that.
beast (10-Aug) : Yeah, someone tell the Packers football season has started, seems like they weren't ready for it
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : Sooooooo many penalties
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : It may only be preseason, but this game is a trip to the dentist
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do bad -- FREAK OUT!!!!!!
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do good -- eh only preseason
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Well that half was fun
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Great, zayne is down
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : 13 minutes away from kickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkoffff
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Had Celebration of Life for my uncle up north. wicked rain hope it dont come south
Mucky Tundra (9-Aug) : THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ARE PLAYING FOOTBALL TONIGHT!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!!!
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Woo-hoo
TheKanataThrilla (9-Aug) : NFL Network is broadcasting the game tonight, but not in Canada. Not sure why as no local television is showing the game.
beast (8-Aug) : But the Return from IR designations had to be applied by the 53 man cutdown.
beast (8-Aug) : It's a new rule, so it's not clear, but my understanding was that they could be IR'd at any time
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : *had to be IRed at 53
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : beast, I thought the designate return from IR players had to be IR at cutdowns to 53, not before
beast (8-Aug) : It's a brand new rule, either last season or this season, prior, all pre-season IRs were done for the season
beast (8-Aug) : But the Packers would have to use one for their return from IR spots on him, when they cut down to 53.
beast (8-Aug) : I think the NFL recently changed the IR rules, so maybe the season might not be over for OL Glover.
Zero2Cool (8-Aug) : Packers star Howton, first NFLPA prez, dies at 95 😔
dfosterf (8-Aug) : Apparently it is too complicated for several to follow your simple instructions, but I digress
dfosterf (8-Aug) : Zero- Did you see what I posted about Voice of Reason and his wife? She posted over at fleaflicker that they are both "In"
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Well, not crazy, it makes sense. Crazy I didn't notice/find it earlier
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : it's crazy how one stored procedure to get data bogged everything down for speed here
dfosterf (7-Aug) : to herd cats or goldfish without a bowl. They reminded me of the annual assembly of our fantasy league
dfosterf (7-Aug) : out on a field trip, outfitting them with little yellow smocks. Most of the little folk were well behaved, but several were like trying
dfosterf (7-Aug) : Yesterday my wife and I spent the afternoon on the waterfront here in Alexandria, Va. A daycare company took about 15 three/four year olds
wpr (7-Aug) : seems faster. yay
dfosterf (7-Aug) : Wife of reason posted on the in/out thread on fleaflicker that both she and vor are in
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : This page was generated in 0.135 seconds.
Mucky Tundra (7-Aug) : Tbh, I can never tell the difference in speed unless it's completely shitting the bed
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Sure does feel like site is more snappy
Zero2Cool (6-Aug) : I thought that was the Lions OL
Mucky Tundra (6-Aug) : Travis Glover placed on IR; seasons over for him
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