Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Did I say that?

I just find the double standards frightening. I've heard people laughing about a horny girl mounting a guy who's so drunk that he's unconscious, yet guys who grope women while drunk can get charged with sexual assault and thrown in prison.

Last summer, during our unit's annual training, one of our (married) NCOs was openly leading a guy on. Like an idiot, he followed her into the bathroom and tried to make out with her. She got pissed and charged him with sexual assault -- even though other females in the area admitted she lead the guy on. Now this guy's career as a sheriff's deputy is over. Do I feel sorry for the guy? Not terribly -- he was a law enforcement officer and should have known better. But the fact is there's a huge power disparity these days, with women able to deliberately tantalize men and turn them on, then turn on them. And there's no repercussions for the women committing the functional equivalent of entrapment.

Sure, a few guys get off who should be busted, and that's unfortunate, but I firmly believe a lot more guys get busted for acting on honest misunderstandings that often result from women deliberately fucking with their heads.

As Max O'Rell said in John Bull and his Island, flirtation is "attention without intention," and it pisses me off.

Women, if you don't want some, don't flirt. We may be stupid, but we men take it seriously. And it's not fair to be jerked around like that.

Was this woman leading Roethlisberger on? She certainly claims she wasn't. But as one woman commented on a Yahoo! News article, she's seen far too many women play the coquettish power trip, then act all innocent when things get serious, and she has a hard time trusting this chick. She said she's embarrassed by her own sex. I don't blame her.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
Rape prosecutions may just be the nastiest kind of criminal prosecutions.

It's a nasty sort of offense, obviously, but unlike other nasty crimes (felony assault, armed robbery, murder), the biggest defense is always going to be something like "implied consent of the victim". The law may not use those two words, but that's what it is going to amount to in the eyes of the finder of fact.

And that means the case inevitably turns on the credibility of two people: the alleged perp, and the complaining victim/consent giver. And when credibility controls, the strategy on both sides is ... well, lets just say that "nasty" is what happens.

Because when it comes to "character," it's extremely hard to keep separate those parts of character that go to the question of "doubt about consent" and those that merely speak to a person's general moral character and judgment (and which should not be counted).

And it isn't the job of the two advocates -- the defense counsel OR the prosecutor to make those distinctions. It's the job of the two advocates to get the real finder of fact to make the distinctions in a particular way.

So the defense counsel is going to try to make the alleged victim look like a sleazy dockyard whore who corrupts young men and spreads disease and ungodliness, and the prosecutor's job is to make the defendant look like a cross between Ed Gein and the bad guys in a Steven Seagal movie.

Frankly, I'm amazed whenever a rape victim agrees to prosecute. IMO that very act says something positive about their character -- whatever else they might be, moral or immoral, they possess a kind of fortitude. And to my mind, fortitude IS a virtue. Even in a sleazy dockyard whore.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Qui tacet consentire -- "Who is silent gives consent."

I firmly believe that if you don't make it abundantly obvious by word and deed that you are refusing consent, you should not be able to prosecute for rape and especially not sexual harassment. There was a recent case in which a couple had been together for over five years. They got drunk, went home, and fucked as usual. By her own admission, the girl didn't utter a peep the entire time and she certainly didn't resist his advances. A few days later she charged the boyfriend with rape. Naturally, he was dumbfounded. I don't know how far the case got, but that kind of thing is not acceptable.

As unfortunate as it may be, it's a truism that in sexual assault cases, it's the victim who's on trial, not the alleged perpetrator. Too many allegations have been proven false over the years for it not to be so.
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RaiderPride
14 years ago

Did I say that?

I just find the double standards frightening. I've heard people laughing about a horny girl mounting a guy who's so drunk that he's unconscious, yet guys who grope women while drunk can get charged with sexual assault and thrown in prison.

Last summer, during our unit's annual training, one of our (married) NCOs was openly leading a guy on. Like an idiot, he followed her into the bathroom and tried to make out with her. She got pissed and charged him with sexual assault -- even though other females in the area admitted she lead the guy on. Now this guy's career as a sheriff's deputy is over. Do I feel sorry for the guy? Not terribly -- he was a law enforcement officer and should have known better. But the fact is there's a huge power disparity these days, with women able to deliberately tantalize men and turn them on, then turn on them. And there's no repercussions for the women committing the functional equivalent of entrapment.

Sure, a few guys get off who should be busted, and that's unfortunate, but I firmly believe a lot more guys get busted for acting on honest misunderstandings that often result from women deliberately fucking with their heads.

As Max O'Rell said in John Bull and his Island, flirtation is "attention without intention," and it pisses me off.

Women, if you don't want some, don't flirt. We may be stupid, but we men take it seriously. And it's not fair to be jerked around like that.

Was this woman leading Roethlisberger on? She certainly claims she wasn't. But as one woman commented on a Yahoo! News article, she's seen far too many women play the coquettish power trip, then act all innocent when things get serious, and she has a hard time trusting this chick. She said she's embarrassed by her own sex. I don't blame her.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Everyone Please look at Nonstops avatar.
""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."
Pack93z
14 years ago
You didn't say that.. correct.

But your global statements make it fairly hard for you to believe their statements because they were drinking or from a personal experience that all women are leading the man on.

I happened to be handcuffed and then freed in your very hometown because I ran a jackass through a wall the couldn't comprehend the word no. Granted he struck her as well.. but for a half hour I thought I was going to pay for his crime... I have seen the other side of an asshole that thought he was entitled to do as he pleased.. UW-L football player or not.

It is simple.. as the physically dominate gender there is a certain responsibility on our part to abide by her word.. and if that word is no... it is your responsibility to control your person and cease. Simple as that.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
14 years ago
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html 

What more can be said for the slime ball..

As far as her withdrawing.. can you imagine the press pressure upon her and her family.. I can see why you would bail on it..

In a March 17 letter to prosecutor Fred Bright, a lawyer for the woman asked that the rape probe be dropped. "What is obvious in looking forward is that a criminal trial would be a very intrusive personal experience for a complainant in this situation, given the extraordinary media attention that would be inevitable," wrote attorney David Walbert. "The media coverage to date, and the efforts of the media to access our client, have been unnerving, to say the least." (23 pages)


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
I don't disagree with you. I still maintain a woman who doesn't want anything shouldn't act like she does. Nor should a man.

She claims she said no twice. She was also wasted, so her credibility is questionable. Furthermore, no physical evidence was found on her, yet she claims Little Ben was hanging out. Are we going to allege that the janitor somehow sanitized her too?

And let's face it: this underage woman was willfully accepting drinks from a rich and famous guy in the VIP section that was cordoned off to other guys. She knew exactly what this guy wanted. If she wasn't interested in the guy's advances, she had no business being in the VIP section.

She had no business being in the bar in the first place.

Roethlisberger is an idiot; he's probably also an asshole. He might even be a rapist. But this girl is far from blameless in this matter.
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RaiderPride
14 years ago

I happened to be handcuffed and then freed in your very hometown because I ran a jackass through a wall the couldn't comprehend the word no. Granted he struck her as well.. but for a half hour I thought I was going to pay for his crime... I have seen the other side of an asshole that thought he was entitled to do as he pleased.. UW football player or not.

"pack93z" wrote:



That is freaky. The exact thing happened to me in Los Angeles.. I jumped a guy beating a woman on the street, and holding another guy back. I was arrested and thrown in jail.

Unlike you I was convicted. It is the only blemish on my record. The reason I was convicted is because during the fight someone grabbed my from behind and I threw an elbow back. It happened to be a police officer I hit in the throat who arrived at the scene. I did not know it was a police officer. I was charged with assaulting a police officer.
""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
I make no claims to being free of bias on this issue. As the one-time victim of a self-proclaimed "fag" who proceeded to smear my reputation across campus by claiming the encounter was consensual, I hold alleged victims to very high standards. I make no apology for this. The fakers cast doubt on all alleged victims, and they make it harder for true victims to obtain justice. Not to mention they ruin the lives of ordinary, innocent people.

As they once pointed out on CSI, there's never a defense for rape, but sometimes you have to wonder what the woman was doing in that dark alley at 2:30 in the morning in the first place.
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Pack93z
14 years ago

I don't disagree with you. I still maintain a woman who doesn't want anything shouldn't act like she does. Nor should a man.

She claims she said no twice. She was also wasted, so her credibility is questionable. Furthermore, no physical evidence was found on her, yet she claims Little Ben was hanging out. Are we going to allege that the janitor somehow sanitized her too?

And let's face it: this underage woman was willfully accepting drinks from a rich and famous guy in the VIP section that was cordoned off to other guys. She knew exactly what this guy wanted. If she wasn't interested in the guy's advances, she had no business being in the VIP section.

She had no business being in the bar in the first place.

Roethlisberger is an idiot; he's probably also an asshole. He might even be a rapist. But this girl is far from blameless in this matter.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Never said she and her friends don't hold any blame.. but the simple fact is.. if she said no.. drunk or not.. he has the obligation to stop.

You talk repeatedly about self responsibility.. Ben being a grown adult should be held responsible for his lack of responsibility.. supplying alcohol to minors and then whether he raped her or not, held her against her will. No.. it is simple as that..

He is definitely guilty of stupidity and immaturity.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
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