Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Our Founders were vehemently opposed to property taxes. The memories of the royal property assessors was still too fresh. It was a philosophical objection: If the government can evict you from your property for failure to pay taxes on it, then you do not in fact own that property. You are merely renting it from the government. Remember that the Declaration of Independence says that all humans have the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," which was a late edit; the original drafts said "life, liberty, and property."

An Iranian professor at my university made this same point to me. She said that Americans have no true freedom, because they have no security in their own homes (a concept with which the Founders also would have agreed). She pointed out that if you fail to pay your taxes one year, you lose your home, something she said is inconceivable in Iran. Even worse, she said, when you die, the government liquidates your property to pay for your Medicare benefit. In Iran, homes are passed on from one generation to the next. The government can't confiscate it at death.

Where there is no right of property, there is no liberty.
UserPostedImage
tromadz
15 years ago
This thing has gone to 13 pages? I haven't read a post yet. I'm assuming everything's been mature then. Neat.

(back to drawing funny things about Brett Favre's daughter)
Pack93z
15 years ago
So your real argument is overall breech of the constitution as it was written hundreds of years ago.. yet the founding fathers were bright enough to know that modifications to the document would have to be allowed with growth of the nation.

You just got done talking about the difference of size between America and Netherlands... yet have no bearing on the fact when the constitution was signed we were what 13 colonies in size?

As a nation grows, as the population and infrastructure develops.. the costs associated with rise as well.. thus making revenue streams to support the government need to expand as well..

Goes back to VR's statement of idealistically vs reality.

Point is, the healthcare system has eroded to nothing more than a income class service and leaving the middle class and below behind.. and some thing has to try and reverse that inequality.. we can argue all day long on how to accomplish that.. but one thing is for sure.. those in control of health care and the insurance industry around it aren't going to.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

So your real argument is overall breech of the constitution as it was written hundreds of years ago..

"pack93z" wrote:



Uh, no, my argument is a philosophical one. I didn't mention the constitution once.

yet the founding fathers were bright enough to know that modifications to the document would have to be allowed with growth of the nation.

"pack93z" wrote:



Yes, and they provided a procedure for making such modifications. Most of these programs have been implemented without such modifications.

As a nation grows, as the population and infrastructure develops.. the costs associated with rise as well.. thus making revenue streams to support the government need to expand as well..

"pack93z" wrote:



You're ignoring the fact that the tax base has grown as well. Legitimate functions of government could be funded without recourse to such methods as property taxes because the number of tax payers has also grown. The government spends billions every year on services that don't need to be provided by government. If we stripped down the size of government to its rightful functions, we wouldn't need so many revenue streams.

some thing has to try and reverse that inequality..

"pack93z" wrote:



It is not the role of government to level inequality. It is the role of government to ensure equal opportunity. That is to say, to ensure one cannot by force of arms or physical strength deprive another of his rights or prevent him from enjoying the fruits of whatever potential he has. You're arguing, essentially, "From each according to his ability -- to each according to his need." Which is a direct quote from the Communist Manifesto. 🙂
UserPostedImage
Formo
15 years ago
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
UserPostedImage
Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Pack93z
15 years ago



some thing has to try and reverse that inequality..

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



It is not the role of government to level inequality. It is the role of government to ensure equal opportunity. That is to say, to ensure one cannot by force of arms or physical strength deprive another of his rights or prevent him from enjoying the fruits of whatever potential he has. You're arguing, essentially, "From each according to his ability -- to each according to his need." Which is a direct quote from the Communist Manifesto. :)

"pack93z" wrote:



Nice.. chop out the portion that fits your view. ;)

My point, is the healthcare system that exists today does not afford the same opportunity to all of its citizens.. just those that can afford 10 k a year in healthcare or those that get a government paid free ride.

Those stuck in the middle have no recourse but to ignore preventative healthcare and dental work.. or go deep into debt because of it.

I am quite sure the founding fathers would shake a finger at the healthcare system of today.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
15 years ago

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

"Formo" wrote:



This very argument boggles my mind.. the legislation just passed mandates that everyone shall have to purchase health care.. isn't that a step better than today with so many uninsured members of society draining "profits" from healthcare because they don't pay?
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

Nice.. chop out the portion that fits your view. ;)

"pack93z" wrote:



I was hoping you'd call me out on that. 😃
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
15 years ago

Nice.. chop out the portion that fits your view. ;)

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I was hoping you'd call me out on that. :D

"pack93z" wrote:



LOL.. of course I would.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Hey, gotta check to make you're you're reading. 😉
UserPostedImage
Users browsing this topic
    Fan Shout
    Zero2Cool (5h) : Brewers sweep Dodgers. Awesome
    Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : And James Flanigan is the grandson of Packers Super Bowl winner Jim Flanigan Sr.
    Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : Jerome Bettis and Jim Flanigans sons as well!
    Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Thomas Davis Jr is OLB, not WR. Oops.
    Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Larry Fitzgeral and Thomas Davis sons too. WR's as well.
    Mucky Tundra (5-Jul) : Kaydon Finley, son of Jermichael Finley, commits to Notre Dame
    dfosterf (3-Jul) : Make sure to send my props to him! A plus move!
    Zero2Cool (3-Jul) : My cousin, yes.
    dfosterf (3-Jul) : That was your brother the GB press gazette referenced with the red cross draft props thing, yes?
    Zero2Cool (2-Jul) : Packers gonna unveil new throwback helmet in few weeks.
    Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : I know it's Kleiman but this stuff writes itself
    Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : "Make sure she signs the NDA before asking for a Happy Ending!"
    Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : @NFL_DovKleiman Powerful: Deshaun Watson is taking Shedeur Sanders 'under his wing' as a mentor to the Browns QBs
    Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Dolphins get (back) Minkah Fitzpatrick in trade
    Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Steelers land Jalen Ramsey via Trade
    dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us
    dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.
    wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.
    Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served
    dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year
    dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot
    dfosterf (25-Jun) : It also says he is subject to another ballot in 2028. I recall nothing of this nature with Murphy
    dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.
    dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy
    dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year
    dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.
    dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest
    dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.
    Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?
    Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason
    Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : @SharpFootball WR Diontae Johnson just admitted he refused to enter a game in 41° weather last year in Baltimore because he felt “ice cold”
    Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.
    Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.
    Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH
    beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
    Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law
    Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter
    Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : According to Tweeter
    Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Packers are working on extension for LT Walker they hope to have done before camp
    dfosterf (18-Jun) : E4B landed at Andrews last night
    dfosterf (18-Jun) : 101 in a 60
    dfosterf (18-Jun) : FAFO
    Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : one year $4m with incentives to make it up to $6m
    dfosterf (18-Jun) : Or Lions
    dfosterf (18-Jun) : Beats the hell out of a Vikings signing
    Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : Baltimore Ravens now have signed former Packers CB Jaire Alexander.
    dfosterf (14-Jun) : TWO magnificent strikes for touchdowns. Lose the pennstate semigeezer non nfl backup
    dfosterf (14-Jun) : There was minicamp Thursday. My man Taylor Engersma threw
    dfosterf (11-Jun) : There will be a mini camp practice Thursday.
    Zero2Cool (11-Jun) : He's been sporting a ring for a while now. It's probably Madonna.
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2025 Packers Schedule
    Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
    LIONS
    Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
    COMMANDERS
    Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
    Browns
    Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
    Cowboys
    Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
    BENGALS
    Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
    Cardinals
    Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
    Steelers
    Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
    PANTHERS
    Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
    EAGLES
    Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
    Giants
    Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
    Lions
    Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
    BEARS
    Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
    Broncos
    Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
    Bears
    Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
    RAVENS
    Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
    Vikings
    Recent Topics
    6-Jul / Random Babble / Martha Careful

    4-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

    2-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    2-Jul / Fantasy Sports Talk / dfosterf

    1-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

    29-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    25-Jun / Around The NFL / Martha Careful

    23-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

    20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    18-Jun / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

    16-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    15-Jun / Random Babble / Martha Careful

    14-Jun / Around The NFL / beast

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.