Zero2Cool
15 years ago

The irony in this is that Nick Collins has been named 2nd team All-Pro twice now, while Jennings and Rodgers have been zero times.

"Rockmolder" wrote:




This might have something to do with them not being blamed for every mistake on the offense and their positives being ignored. Sort of like that saying that goes something like, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Same goes for Collins and the defenses mistakes. He's the head caller on the field, so when things go wrong, uneducated (i'm one of them, as I wasn't there and don't know the play calls) people point the finger at him instead taking the time to learn what was supposed to happen instead.
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DakotaT
15 years ago

C'mon now on the worrying about Tauch because he will be signed. Rodgers is wanting it so you know it will be done and we know how Ted Thompson handles qbs that say they want certain free agents signed lol. But seriously i can see AK gone along with Tauch and Bigby and i won't have a problem with it. It seemed to me we were getting better OLB play after AK was injured, be nice to AK and let him go find a team that plays the 4-3 and make the big bucks. I like how everyone is bashing Collins about wanting a new contract after back to back Pro Bowls but yet were happier than pigs in shit when we signed Rodgers to a huge new contract after playing 7 games. I will never figure out some of you.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Why is saying a guy isn't an elite player bashing? Elite player status comes from making the All Pro team, not the popularity contest joke of a vacation called the Pro Bowl. I'm not one of the ass clowns that overvalues a player because he wears a helmet with G on it. We have 3 All Pro caliber players on our team: Rodgers, Jennings, and Woodson - everyone else has improvements to make, so they should not command top dollar contracts.

"DakotaT" wrote:



The irony in this is that Nick Collins has been named 2nd team All-Pro twice now, while Jennings and Rodgers have been zero times.

"dhazer" wrote:




Standards sure must have gone down over the years. Butler was an All Pro safety in my book, and we have yet to replace him
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Rockmolder
15 years ago

C'mon now on the worrying about Tauch because he will be signed. Rodgers is wanting it so you know it will be done and we know how Ted Thompson handles qbs that say they want certain free agents signed lol. But seriously i can see AK gone along with Tauch and Bigby and i won't have a problem with it. It seemed to me we were getting better OLB play after AK was injured, be nice to AK and let him go find a team that plays the 4-3 and make the big bucks. I like how everyone is bashing Collins about wanting a new contract after back to back Pro Bowls but yet were happier than pigs in shit when we signed Rodgers to a huge new contract after playing 7 games. I will never figure out some of you.

"DakotaT" wrote:



Why is saying a guy isn't an elite player bashing? Elite player status comes from making the All Pro team, not the popularity contest joke of a vacation called the Pro Bowl. I'm not one of the ass clowns that overvalues a player because he wears a helmet with G on it. We have 3 All Pro caliber players on our team: Rodgers, Jennings, and Woodson - everyone else has improvements to make, so they should not command top dollar contracts.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



The irony in this is that Nick Collins has been named 2nd team All-Pro twice now, while Jennings and Rodgers have been zero times.

"DakotaT" wrote:




Standards sure must have gone down over the years. Butler was an All Pro safety in my book, and we have yet to replace him

"dhazer" wrote:



Look at it by comparison. Which 4 safeties do you think should've made it over Nick? I think that he's been the 3rd/4th best safety in the league over the last two years.
ILikeThePackers39
15 years ago
Okay, okay - I apologize for my hyperbole (I'll never understand why everyone else gets to use it, but I'll keep my butthurt-ness to myself :pottytrain2: ). I'll amend my statement: I'm mystified by how many are reluctant to give the kid a contract. I do know that the money is not infinite - I also know that the safety position is pretty damn crucial and dude is the only good one we've got. And I will add a question: If the team can't/won't pay Collins*, why are we talking about guys like Ryan Clark, or even discussing any improvement @ the safety position? Clark is the only possible FA that even comes close to Collins, and they'd have to pay him, too. In my (probably flawed) opinion, quality safety play is key to any defensive improvement; Collins is the only guy providing that, at this point.

I also think it might be nice (yeah, I said it) to show him some freakin' love. He didn't hold out last year, he's laid it all out on the field for two years, and I just personally think he's earned it. Now, if he and his agent demand that he become the highest-paid safety in the league, well then I might think differently.


*I will insist until my death that on occasion a team has to over-pay for a player. They over-paid to move up to take Matthews, but I can't blame them, given the lift he provided. Do I think that paying a Collins more than his play strictly merits is a great thing? No. Do I think that such a thing is sometimes necessary to compete? Yep.
blank
DakotaT
15 years ago

Settle down Susie, to be perfectly honest, I don't recall your stand on free agents because I don't dedicate my life to memorizing everyone's point of view in this forum. I try to avoid yours because one day you're chewing Favre an ass and the next you stick up for him (I don't know how to read you). I read your earlier post as opposition to my point of view. Sorry if you got upset. If we give Collins everything his agent asks for, I am going to be upset because I find major flaws in his game.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



You're the one in need of settling down my friend. I've been consistent with my take on Brett, it's not my fault you can't comprehend objectivity and being able to point out ones flaws and point out ones positives.

I'm not upset, well, actually I am now after learning you don't dedicate your life to understanding/memorizing my point of view on things. I am going to have trouble sleeping tonight. I'm thinking it'll be a NyQuill night.

More so on a subject of importance, if we give Collins everything he's asking for, I think that's a failure in negotiation tactics, unless it's fair for the Packers as well as him. My take on Collins is, he's been good about things, I haven't heard him complain once about his contract. When asked would he like a long term deal, he's said yes. He hasn't (to my knowledge) come out and said 'SHOW ME THE MONEY' type of comments.

I think he's between 6-10 for best safeties in the NFL right now and I wouldn't sweat it if we paid him accordingly.

"DakotaT" wrote:




I bet you buy the chicks at the bar drinks thinking your going to get laid too. :icon_smile:

Maybe I am a little menstral today, Mrs Dakota is under the knife right now. Sorry for being a jackass.
UserPostedImage
ILikeThePackers39
15 years ago

I've never said don't sign him. He's a good player, but I'm sorry, teams were going downtown too often this year. That doesn't happen with great safety play. EX. Go back and watch Johnny Knox's touchdown in the first Bear game for an example. Collins should have made that play in his sleep. It was embarrassing.

"DakotaT" wrote:




Well, even the best get burned. And I don't personally know (maybe you do) that there weren't other reasons for those lapses (other guys dropping their responsibilities, newness of the scheme). We would appear to disagree on his abilities, but that's no big thing - my larger points are that the dude has earned a contract (unless they're willing to let him go) and we have NOTHING on the roster at safety besides him. Other than run support, Bigby is a massive liability back there, and Giordano et al are utter crap. If they can't afford to re-up Collins, I don't see how they're going to upgrade the play at safety any time soon, and you need some coverage if you want to get to the QB.


Last offseason when this was debated I heard a lot of (not specifically from you, that I can recall - I just remember the general consensus) "let's see him have another good year before we give him a contract". Well, this is 2 pro bowl seasons, now. He's kept his level of play up through a scheme change, even. I think he's earned his money.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:




Which lends more credence to the fact that his agent has us by the short and curlies and we are going to have to overpay. This is what upsets me, not that I want Collins gone, or I'm trashing him; but it's that I know he has us over a barrel. Totally agree on the other safeties.

"DakotaT" wrote:




Then by and large we agree. I don't love that they'll have to over-pay. At the same time, I'm loathe to see what becomes of that defense without him back there @ safety, and if they don't over-pay I fear I'll have to cover my eyes next season whenever an opposing QB drops back to pass.
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dfosterf
15 years ago

Okay, okay - I apologize for my hyperbole (I'll never understand why everyone else gets to use it, but I'll keep my butthurt-ness to myself :pottytrain2: ). I'll amend my statement: I'm mystified by how many are reluctant to give the kid a contract. I do know that the money is not infinite - I also know that the safety position is pretty damn crucial and dude is the only good one we've got. And I will add a question: If the team can't/won't pay Collins*, why are we talking about guys like Ryan Clark, or even discussing any improvement @ the safety position? Clark is the only possible FA that even comes close to Collins, and they'd have to pay him, too. In my (probably flawed) opinion, quality safety play is key to any defensive improvement; Collins is the only guy providing that, at this point.

I also think it might be nice (yeah, I said it) to show him some freakin' love. He didn't hold out last year, he's laid it all out on the field for two years, and I just personally think he's earned it. Now, if he and his agent demand that he become the highest-paid safety in the league, well then I might think differently.


*I will insist until my death that on occasion a team has to over-pay for a player. They over-paid to move up to take Matthews, but I can't blame them, given the lift he provided. Do I think that paying a Collins more than his play strictly merits is a great thing? No. Do I think that such a thing is sometimes necessary to compete? Yep.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



I'll try this one.

Since you are backing off and going to "reluctant", I promise not to wipe out any schoolkids in frustration, lol

We might need to make some roster moves, re-negotiate some contracts, make other decisions based on how THOSE negotiations proceed...IN ORDER TO show Nick the love. I would submit that this is the most LIKELY scenario, when you factor in our Kampy situation, our Cliffy situation, etc.

You agree that this is a possible scenario? The organization may have decided that it is better to (finally?) sit down in earnest with Nick and his agent AFTER they clear up the other issues as best as possible. I would do it that way if I were them. To go "Nick first"-- You just might hose yourself out of some very valuable cogs in the wheel..and multiple cogs, too.

(We got Kampy getting top 5 money in the other thread even as I post this)
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

I bet you buy the chicks at the bar drinks thinking your going to get laid too. :icon_smile:

Maybe I am a little menstral today, Mrs Dakota is under the knife right now. Sorry for being a jackass.

"DakotaT" wrote:



Wait a tick, buying a chick a beer increases your chances? I was told I needed to buy shots before a chick gave me a chance!! Damn them!!!


Seriously, I hope she pulls through 100%.
UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
15 years ago

I bet you buy the chicks at the bar drinks thinking your going to get laid too. :icon_smile:

Maybe I am a little menstral today, Mrs Dakota is under the knife right now. Sorry for being a jackass.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Wait a tick, buying a chick a beer increases your chances? I was told I needed to buy shots before a chick gave me a chance!! Damn them!!!


Seriously, I hope she pulls through 100%.

"DakotaT" wrote:



Agreed. Here's to a quick recovery for Mrs D.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
15 years ago

I bet you buy the chicks at the bar drinks thinking your going to get laid too. :icon_smile:

Maybe I am a little menstral today, Mrs Dakota is under the knife right now. Sorry for being a jackass.

"wpr" wrote:



Wait a tick, buying a chick a beer increases your chances? I was told I needed to buy shots before a chick gave me a chance!! Damn them!!!


Seriously, I hope she pulls through 100%.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Agreed. Here's to a quick recovery for Mrs D.

"DakotaT" wrote:



Get well soon, Mrs. Dakota!
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