bigfog
15 years ago
No accountability for players, and no accountability for coaches. At least McCarthy's consistent in that regard.
"I wouldn't root for the Minnesota Vikings to win a chess match against Nazi Germany."
Scottish_Packer
15 years ago
Bob Sanders was held accountable.... why are the rest immune?
UserPostedImage
evad04
15 years ago
Lotta anger, lotta drawing conclusions. I DVR'd the game and just watched it again. This game was given up in the final 13 minutes, and it was a cumulative breakdown spurned by gaping special teams plays, sacks at critical times, a critical holding penalty -- the list goes on.

I don't see where McCarthy is wrong in his answers. I definitely feel the offensive line is connected to many of our woes, but I don't think McCarthy is delusional. What mid-season steps exactly can be taken?

I understand that everything I say well be seen as a vehement defense of McCarthy, but I think that's unwarranted. I'm trying to be as unemotional about this as possible. I'm not looking at it from the perspective of the fan who feels [and to some extent, rightfully so] entitled to hear what they'd consider a suitable explanation. I'm just looking at the game, and the conclusion I honestly draw is that this game wasn't lost on any one domain. The crappy McCarthy playcalling is an absolutely unsubstantiated myth in my opinion, and I'm being as objective as possible. I only wish I had a better view of the entire field, but I did my level best to watch the replay CLOSELY.

Right now we as fans have plenty of reason to be upset. I can't control that for some the blame follows the ladder to the top -- McCarthy. I just can't get behind that notion because as I see it, it's been a confluence of factors -- the most impacting of which is the offensive line issues. It doesn't appear that the sacks are "playcalling" issues but rather the result of blocking breakdowns, and occasionally inadequate vision by Rodgers. I can't speak to the receivers because the t.v. camera angle doesn't afford a lot of analysis in that department.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
RaiderPride
15 years ago
There are copious comments about firing MM and Ted Thompson Right Now. Not just on Kevin's forum here, but all over the place.. Including PFT.


History Buffs... People here who know way more than me.. A question for you.

Has there ever been a firing of a coach that was 4-4 ? I think Not.

Has there ever been a total overhaul firing of a Head Coach and GM from a team that was 4-4? I Think not.

Especially when that team was one game back from a wild card playoff birth with 8 games remaining.

The reason I am sure it never happened is because it would put that team in total turmoil, screw everything, and would be a total freaking disaster.

Think about it! To demand the immediate firing of the coach is ridiculous, and the GM is beyond ridiculous.

8 games left..... Ride the wave. At the end of the year, then one can evaluate and comment.

Even the fans should have that common sense.

RP
""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."
longtimefan
15 years ago
But RP this are the same mistakes over and over that are happening..

Tell me, in any type of job, if employees ( new ones every year) are making same mistakes over and over again, and his/her boss is always saying I will get it fixed and its never fixed..

The next step would be to fire that boss or no?
IronMan
15 years ago



Right now we as fans have plenty of reason to be upset. I can't control that for some the blame follows the ladder to the top -- McCarthy. I just can't get behind that notion because as I see it, it's been a confluence of factors -- the most impacting of which is the offensive line issues. It doesn't appear that the sacks are "playcalling" issues but rather the result of blocking breakdowns, and occasionally inadequate vision by Rodgers. I can't speak to the receivers because the t.v. camera angle doesn't afford a lot of analysis in that department.

"evad04" wrote:


Do you not understand that McCarthy is responsible for everything that you mentioned above?
evad04
15 years ago



Right now we as fans have plenty of reason to be upset. I can't control that for some the blame follows the ladder to the top -- McCarthy. I just can't get behind that notion because as I see it, it's been a confluence of factors -- the most impacting of which is the offensive line issues. It doesn't appear that the sacks are "playcalling" issues but rather the result of blocking breakdowns, and occasionally inadequate vision by Rodgers. I can't speak to the receivers because the t.v. camera angle doesn't afford a lot of analysis in that department.

"IronMan" wrote:


Do you not understand that McCarthy is responsible for everything that you mentioned above?

"evad04" wrote:


He's responsible for Rodgers' vision? Wanna re-think that one?

As far as the offensive line stuff, it's a lot more interesting than just "it's McCarthy's fault!" There are individual players who are failing, there's a position coach who I hope will be looking for work elsewhere next season, and there's Ted Thompson (and also McCarthy, to whatever extent he's responsible for personnel decisions) who appears to have fielded an inadequate group of lineman.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
RaiderPride
15 years ago

But RP these are the same mistakes over and over that are happening..

Tell me, in any type of job, if employees ( new ones every year) are making same mistakes over and over again, and his/her boss is always saying I will get it fixed and its never fixed..

The next step would be to fire that boss or no?

"longtimefan" wrote:



Longtime...

First of all, it is very difficult to make a reasonable comparison of an NFL BOSS to a performance of a "boss" in any other type of job."

Do not get me wrong. I understand what you are saying. In the world of regular business, the performance of employees is directly connected to the performance of management. and the leaders of that organization.

I am a firm believer that there is no such thing as a bad employee. There can only be bad management. But that is in the regular business world at the Bank of America, at Kinkos, at Sub Way, or at Wal-Mart.

That is because management in any other business has much more time to work with what is going wrong over and over again. The average (Player In Any Other Business.) has about 3 months or 480 Hours to prove themselves and be evaluated by management when in action.

In the NFL... Coaches have perhaps what? 7.5 minutes a week of actual performance on film to evaluate an employees performance.

I state 7.5 minutes..because some of the best players in the NFL were found to be great in action, and not in practice. They got game action, and were game performers.

I guess what I am saying is.. the analogy of "Any Other Business" does not cut it when comparing it to the NFL.

There are many GM and Head Coach tandems that were so close to putting it all together, but did not get the opportunity to review that extra 75 minutes of game film to put it all together, because they were fired.

You can not compare the NFL to any other business.

RP





l
""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."
IronMan
15 years ago

there's Ted Thompson (and also McCarthy, to whatever extent he's responsible for personnel decisions) who appears to have fielded an inadequate group of lineman

"evad04" wrote:



Yep. Thats on both of them. Whats the answer? That's not my job. Whether or not I have the answers is irrelevant. Its a problem. Its BEEN a problem. They need to fix it or we will find someone that will.

He's responsible for Rodgers' vision? Wanna re-think that one?

"evad04" wrote:


Yep. If Rodgers isn't finding open receivers, that is something McCarthy (he's the qb guru) needs to correct. And as for him holding the ball too long, I refuse to believe that receivers aren't open after 5-6 seconds. (Nonstop is with me on this one)



There are individual players who are failing

"evad04" wrote:



Again, either they aren't good enough(Thompson) or they aren't being properly coached. (MM)


there's a position coach who I hope will be looking for work elsewhere next season

"evad04" wrote:


Who hired him? And if he is the problem, then why is he still here? What is so taboo about firing someone mid season? I have never understood that.

To make a long story short, if you cannot find any fault in MM after what we have seen so far this season, then you are just not objective. You claim that I am being too "emotional" in my analysis of the Packers.

Well Porky is one of the most respected members here. He is also very level headed and very objective. And even HE said MM should be fired. Is he being too emotional or irrational?
LambeauEast
15 years ago
I'm sure glad he doesn't want shifting Lang to different positions along the line to hinder that group's continuity.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (19h) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (23h) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (23h) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb
wpr (9-Apr) : yay
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Struggling to figure out what text editor options are needed and which are 'nice to have'
Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : The spotting of the ball IS the issue. Not the chain gang.
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Will there be a tracker on the ball or something?
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