zombieslayer
15 years ago



Wilson had a choice to a certain extend. He tried to remain isolated from the war for a very long time. An English passenger ship with quite a lot Americans on it was sunk by Germany. Germany kept on falling back to unrestricted submarine warfare. Two of your war factories where sabotaged by the Germans. You where attacked on your homeland. It's miraclous that it took a pact by Mexico, Germany and Japan against you to get into this war.

I mean, they had to sink another 7 merchant ships before you entered the war actively.

In hindsight, I personally think that this was the first step into making you the biggest power in the world. Of course, the economy was booming before that and you where a force to be reckoned with, but you showed total dominance in that was. Coming in and sweeping away the Germans in no time.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Wilson was a scumbag. The truth was we were helping the British secretly. We shouldn't have been. That's why the Germans torpedoed that "passenger" ship. Funny thing, the "passenger" ship blew up because it was full of munitions.

Wilson on one hand was screaming about peace but on the other hand intentionally tried to get us into the war.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
The sinking of the Lusitania is one of the more fascinating incidents in U.S. history, because, like the bombing of Pearl Harbor a couple decades later, we were complicit in it.

You see, by December 1914, England had broken the German codes and the British Navy knew exactly when each German U-boat left port on patrol and where it was bound. In other words, First Lord of the Admiralty, Winston Churchill, was fully apprised of the location of every U-boat in the vicinity of the English Channel.

Moreover, the German government had taken great pains to warn American passengers not to travel aboard the ship, which was known to be carrying American munitions to Great Britain -- in blatant violation, we might add, of the United States' neutrality stance.

To quote the famous book None Dare Call it Treason:

The German government took out large ads in all the New York papers warning potential passengers that the ship was carrying munitions and telling them not to cross the Atlantic on it . . . Yet the sinking of the Lusitania was used by clever propagandists to portray the Germans as inhuman slaughterers of innocents. Submarine warfare was manufactured into a cause celebre to push us into war."



Copy of one of these ads:

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On page 189 of Jim Marrs' Rule by Secrecy, we read:

British commander Joseph Kenworthy, on duty when the ship was sunk, later revealed that her military escort was withdrawn at the last minute and her captain ordered to enter at reduced speed an area where a German U-boat was known to be operating. It is clear why Germany attacked this ship, and Britain would have done the same if U.S. munitions were being shipped to Germany. The Germans, whose torpedo struck the liner, were the unwitting accomplices or victims of a plot probably concocted by Winston Churchill, concluded author Simpson.



Yes, Winston Churchill -- ostensible guardian of democracy in the Free World during World War II -- ordered the Lusitania's escort to withdraw. Not only that, he ordered the ship to operate at reduced speed in a region known to be patrolled by German U-boats! Why, you ask? Because according to The Intimate Papers of Colonel House, Wilson's top political advisor, the Wilson administration was searching for a way to flame American indignation and give him an excuse to take he country into the war. The book records a conversation between Colonel House and Sir Edward Grey, the Foreign Secretary of England:

Grey: What will America do if the Germans sink an ocean liner with American passengers on board?

House: I believe that a flame of indignation would sweep the United States and that by itself would be sufficient to carry us into the war.



Ironically, it didn't work. No such flame of indication swept over the country. (Probably because most Americans were intelligent enough to realize that sending an unprotected passenger liner carrying American munitions into German-patrolled waters was asking for trouble.)

Thus stymied, Robert Lansing, the Assistant Secretary of State, declared: "We must educate the public gradually draw it along to the point where it will be willing to go into the war."

Accordingly, the English and American governments sponsored two separate sham inquiries into the incident. Mr. Colin Simpson writes in his expose The Lusitania:

"Both sets of archives [of the inquiries] . . . contain meager information. There are substantial differences of fact in the two sets of papers and in many cases it is difficult to accept that the files relate to the same vessel."



In any case, both inquiries concluded that no American munitions were aboard the ship and that it was sunk by German torpedoes. In the words of one internet blogger: "The cover-up was now official."

Colin Simpson states that the sinking of the Lusitania is "the foulest act of wilful murder ever committed on the seas." By our own government, no less.

In its review of the book, the Los Angeles Times stated: "The Lusitania proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the British government connived at the sinking of the passenger ship in order to lure America into World War I. The Germans, whose torpedo struck the liner, were the unwitting accomplices or victims of a plot probably concocted by Winston Churchill."

You gotta love Democratic presidents who promise to keep us out of the war.
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Rockmolder
15 years ago
Lol, thanks for the update guys. Always helps to have some smart friends.

It appears to be one of those wild conspiracy theories if you ask me and I stand by my earlier mentioned points. You have swayed me a little, though.

It's just a known fact that you where supplying the English etc. with war supplies. In a way, your neutrality was already voided at this point. But lets look at it from another side, you had to support your greatest ally in some way or form. At least, I don't think that complete neutrality had done you any good from a diplomatic standpoint.
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
It's not a conspiracy theory. It's extremely well documented. President Wilson wanted us in the war long before he was re-elected; he just didn't have the backing of popular opinion.

The Los Angeles Times isn't known for promoting conspiracy theories.
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4PackGirl
15 years ago

The thing I hate about this is that people actually try to make this Obama's fault and it sheds him in a bad light when he had nothing to do with it. It's not like he asked for the award.

"The_Green_Ninja" wrote:



Yet you forget, he could have declined it.

"4PackGirl" wrote:



omfg & the "offend" the givers of the nobel peace prize?? come ON!! imagine what people would think of THAT?? damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

i don't agree with his even being nominated for it, much less winning it, btw.

"The_Green_Ninja" wrote:



Yes he could have. He could have politely. From an Article  - "Le Duc Tho, awarded the 1973 Nobel Peace Prize jointly with US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, is the only person who has declined the Nobel Peace Prize. They were both awarded the Prize for negotiating the Vietnam peace accord. Le Doc Tho said that he was not in a position to accept the Prize, citing the situation in Vietnam as his reason."

So it's been done before... and Obama could have said it's not right to accept it due to his lack of experience or unworthiness. That would have been probably more honorable then anything.

"djcubez" wrote:




we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, ninja.
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Who cares if the nameless members of the awards committee are offended, 4PackGirl? I don't understand your point here.
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4PackGirl
15 years ago
it wouldn't just be the nameless on the board, the entire nation (well those who want to hate on him for everything) would be down obama's throat with "how dare he not accept this award - does he think he's too good for it - that 'monkey' should be happy to get any award even though he's a 'nazi' "

what people need to remember is that this award has lost it's meaning over the years. once they gave it to the wonderful gov ryan from illinois, i lost all respect for it. this award needs to be put in the hands of the people in the trenches who truly do wonderful work with the people - not the figure heads, imho.
Dulak
15 years ago

Obama was nominated for the honor 12 days after he was elected. Must have been the most amazing 12 days in the history of the office of President of the United States of America.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



one of my patients today said "he got the prize cuz he's black" (and he is black himself) - he was asking the same questions; what did he do? (and he also mentioned he had to get nominated months back).
(btw I live in britain)
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
It couldn't have gone to a better person. Congrats.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
If it went to you, Kevin, I'd congratulate you too. And then I'd ask you what you'd done to deserve it

It doesn't matter how good a person Barack Obama is. Asking why he got it, how he deserves it, is still a valid question if the prize is to retain any shred of credibility.

And yes, Dulak, he was nominated "months ago." ABC Radio News said it was 12 days after he was elected.
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