Talking defense.. X's and O's

all_about_da_packers
Senior Member Topic Starter

16 years ago

mainly the reason is that our defense not only has been getting killed by the other team's run but also the other team's TE's, Moss hasn't done that great of a job, secondly if Moss we're to be the D/C people don't realize that we would be keeping the same scheme which please don't let that happen or we're doomed again. We need a D/C that will change the scheme and get some effective blitzing and make our superstar linebackers play pro bowl level

"krazygangsta" wrote:

Actually, the other teams TE hasn't hurt us as much this year compared to last year. There have been occasions, like Owen Daniels of the Texans making big catches in the final drive to set up the game winning FG, but all in all we've improved considerably in TE coverage. We aren't getting killed by big plays from TEs any more.

Also, the scheme isn't a problem. It's the same scheme used by the successful Dolphins and Jim Bates in the late 90s when the Dolphins were great Defensively. It's the scheme that was brought into prominence by Jimmy Johnson during his successful stint as the Dallas Cowboys HC in early 90s.

There aren't many other 4-3 schemes this team can run, and we don't have the personnel to switch to a 3-4. I think the only other scheme that might be considered is a Tampa-2, but that's not a clearly more efficient and productive scheme.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

Wanna join the discussion?! Login to your PACKERSHOME forum account or Register a new forum account

ILikeThePackers39
Registered

16 years ago

There aren't many other 4-3 schemes this team can run, and we don't have the personnel to switch to a 3-4. I think the only other scheme that might be considered is a Tampa-2, but that's not a clearly more efficient and productive scheme.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:

Well, while I'll admit up front that I don't know how all the schemes inter-relate, I think we've got good personnel (assuming Jenkins comes back and we can find a new guy to fill KGB's role) to run a scheme like the Eagles and Giants run. For one, we've got the personnel in the secondary to man-up on the WRs and free the LB corps and a safety to attack the ball. For another, we've got very good team speed.

I'm no defensive guru, and I don't claim to be. But I do think we've got the people to run that kind of defense. Not the 3-4, though, I totally agree about that.

blank

go.pack.go.
Veteran Member

16 years ago

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:

Sorry, off topic. But your avatar creeps the shit out of me.

Anyway, I don't have any desire to keep him around. I also think we can run a scheme similar to the Eagles and Giants.

all_about_da_packers
Senior Member Topic Starter

16 years ago

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:

The Packers employ a 4-3 cover 1 (man-to-man press), and other 4-3 variants include cover 2 (Tampa 2), Cover 3, and quarters.

The Eagles and Giants employ a much more diverse style of 4-3, meaning they mix up their coverages from cover 1, quarters, cover 3, etc. The Packers differ mainly because they employ almost exclusively cover 1, and some quarters coverage.

The premise of the 4-3 D, whether it's cover 1/2/3/quarters is that you have a d-line that gets pressure on the QB. The coverage in turn is supposed to give you the extra time to get to the QB, giving the QB no immediate check downs in the face of coming pressure.

Regardless of us changing from Cover 1 to any other 4-3 scheme, we're going to struggle because we lack the fundamental necessity; we don't have a decent pass rush. Our d-line is a weakness, and that's a major no-no 4-3 scheme.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

go.pack.go.
Veteran Member

16 years ago

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:

I wonder how good we are in zone, at that. I like the bump and run coverage as it is.

all_about_da_packers
Senior Member Topic Starter

16 years ago

I wonder how good we are in zone, at that. I like the bump and run coverage as it is.

"go.pack.go." wrote:

Zone is basically quarters coverage.

Think of the field as being divided into 4 parts, the 2 CBs and 2 Safties are responsible 1/4 of the field. CBs cover the side lines, Safties cover the the deep. The LBs cover the intermediate middle of the field.

The problem with Zone is that the coverage leaves gaps, so if there is enough time than a WR/TE can run a route and settle in the gaps between coverage, basically giving the QB an easy target to hit with time, if no pressure exists.

That's just a basic idea of 4-3 Quarters though, technically you have a chess match, can blitz / overload one side based on the formation. It's all the variances that a DC can add.

Quarters is designed to limit the big play though. If I'm not mistaken, on the infamous 4th and 26, MS over ruled Ed Donatell, and made the Packers play quarters coverage.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

Pack93z
Select Member

16 years ago

I wonder how good we are in zone, at that. I like the bump and run coverage as it is.

"go.pack.go." wrote:

Other than Woodson.. we don't have corners that play well in space at this time.. they have been groomed to play bump and run with a cover two safety coverage over the top.. Williams might be okay in zone.. but Harris and Bush are awful.

One of the main flaws in this scheme, IMO, is that we don't drop the backers into shorts zones and minimize the drag routes that seem kill us underneath.. especially with stack formations. Additionally it would help on the flare routes allowing the backers to keep everything in front of them.. playing them strict man with a bad pass rush, allows the backers to trail in coverage and play in a chase position.. allowing for more explosive plays.

Brass nuts boys.. almost every base 4-3 package needs an effective front four to generate pass rush.. the exceptions are the zone blitz packages that try to throw off the QB and line.. zone blitz packages have inherent holes in them due to its primal nature.. if you don't get home on the blitz.. you are toast more often than not with a poised QB.

Our Dline, was awful at pass rush, but not as terrible in run defense as undisciplined in their responsibilities.. guys jumping out of contain.. add to it a tentative backing corps (dfost.. 😉 ) and you have a porous run defense.

We are running a 4-3 unless we do a major overhaul on the roster.. we just need better penetration and discipline along the dline and more aggression from the backers in run defense and better play recognition.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

go.pack.go.
Veteran Member

16 years ago

Well then, I don't like Quarters coverage.

Pack93z
Select Member

16 years ago

Well then, I don't like Quarters coverage.

"go.pack.go." wrote:

Zone is primarily used to keep everything in front of you.. make a play downhill.. it also is used to trick a QB by moving the "soft" points of the zone.. trying to make them throw into the "teeth: of the zone..

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

all_about_da_packers
Senior Member Topic Starter

16 years ago

#10

"pack93z" wrote:

I wonder 93z, which type of player do you think is best suited for zone?

Personally, I think the best type of DBs for zone are the beastly athletic players, who have a good knowledge of offensive formations and motions.

Woodson fits the bill completely, he is super athletic but also extremely smart (in a football sense).

Other athletic DBs include Blackmon, Bush, and Collins. All three are great athletes, but the problem is they can't recognize and diagnose offensive sets. Basically they have the talent physically to excel in zone, but when it comes to pre-snap recognition, they are totally clueless.

Hence why we struggle so much at zone coverage, our DBs react too late, because they struggle to diagnose the pre-snap formations of the Offense.

Harris as you said doesn't have the style to pull off playing zone effectively, but I'm wondering if Tramon might fit the bill. Might be something to look at with a new DC, if he can help our DBs get better at pre-snap recognition.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

Important Information:

The PACKERSHOME uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More Details Close

Fan Shout

Zero2Cool (4h) : It's the cycle of civilizations. Get lazier, lazier, softer, softer and vanish.

Martha Careful (5h) : great point. every aspect of society, including art, culture and sports has degraded.

dfosterf (17h) : Green Bay sweep meant something to society about stopping pure excellence. We have the tush push now

dfosterf (17h) : We old Martha.

Martha Careful (18h) : *front four

Martha Careful (18h) : Re frout four, I wish we had some Green "People Eaters" or a fearsome foursome

dfosterf (4-Jun) : *directions*

dfosterf (4-Jun) : Just don't ask him for driving direct

dfosterf (4-Jun) : Jim Marshall was an all-time great DE for the Purple People Eaters. Didn't like him. That's a compliment. RIP

Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : ooppppss

Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : “Kenny Clark played all of last season hurt by the way and got surgery to fix it in January”

Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood How much did the injury affect him last fall? “A lot.”

Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood Kenny Clark said he had foot surgery in January. Injured his foot in opener against Eagles and played through it all year.

Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : Golden is wearing guardian cap again. I bet he plays with it on too.

Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : All the stuff I'm reading from Lions fans are pointing at his toe; he more or less has permanent turf toe in one of his big toes

dfosterf (3-Jun) : Kenny played through it, and a shame he gets little credit for that, imo

dfosterf (3-Jun) : Big men. I hope it's not the undoing of Kenny Clark

dfosterf (3-Jun) : Probably his toe. Pretty much a great center. Toe injuries are brutal to bigen

Mucky Tundra (2-Jun) : Lions All-Pro C Frank Ragnow retires

wpr (30-May) : It's all good.

beast (30-May) : Yeah, and I enjoyed your comments and just attempted to add to it. Sorry if I did it incorrectly.

wpr (30-May) : Beast I never said Henderson was the salt of the earth. Nor even that he was correct. Just quoting the guy.

Zero2Cool (29-May) : What did you do??

Zero2Cool (29-May) : Whoa

beast (29-May) : OMG the website is now all white, even some white on white text

beast (29-May) : Henderson, who admits to taking cocaine during the Super Bowl against the Steelers, might dislike Bradshaw as he lost two Superbowls to him

wpr (28-May) : Hollywood Henderson said Bradshaw “is so dumb, he couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted him the C and an A.”

Mucky Tundra (28-May) : Cooper stock=BUY BUY BUY

Mucky Tundra (28-May) : Also notes he’s playing with more confidence.

Mucky Tundra (28-May) : @AndyHermanNFL MLF says there was a time last year where Cooper was at 220 pounds. Now he’s at 240 and still flying around.

Mucky Tundra (28-May) : And don't even get me started on Frank Caliendos "impersonations"

Mucky Tundra (28-May) : I got tired of them being circle jerks with them overlaughing at each others jokes.

Zero2Cool (28-May) : It used to be must watch TV for me. now it's "meh" maybe to hear injury update

Mucky Tundra (28-May) : I haven't watched the pregame shows in years and I don't feel like I've missed a thing

Zero2Cool (28-May) : Love says knee affected him all season, groin injury didn't help matters.

Zero2Cool (28-May) : I used to enjoy him on FOX Pregame. Now it's like a frat party of former Patriots.

Zero2Cool (28-May) : LaFleur on Watson: “Christian is doing outstanding. I would say he’s ahead of schedule.”

Martha Careful (28-May) : Bradshaw is a dumb ass cracker. I am so tired of his "aw shucks" diatribe. He should shrivel up and go away.

buckeyepackfan (28-May) : He wad all butt hurt because Aaron duped the media saying he was immunized.

buckeyepackfan (28-May) : Bradshaw needs to retire. He's been ripping on Rodgers ever since the covid crap. He was all hury

Zero2Cool (28-May) : Terry Bradshaw doesn't want Rodgers in Pittsburgh lol wow

Zero2Cool (27-May) : one day contract, which he also feels is pointless, but if Packers came to him, he would

packerfanoutwest (27-May) : Aaron Rodgers talks possibility of retiring with Packers, just another rumor

dfosterf (27-May) : Go watch 2001

Zero2Cool (26-May) : 1984

dfosterf (26-May) : That movie sent a chill through many. 1968.

dfosterf (26-May) : "Open the pod bay doors, HAL"

buckeyepackfan (25-May) : Haven't we all seen thus movie? It doesn't end well!! Lol

Zero2Cool (25-May) : lol Anthropic’s new AI model turns to blackmail when engineers try to take it offline

dfosterf (25-May) : Claude Opus 4

Please sign in to use Fan Shout

2025 Packers Schedule

Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM

LIONS

Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM

COMMANDERS

Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM

Browns

Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM

Cowboys

Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM

BENGALS

Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM

Cardinals

Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM

Steelers

Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM

PANTHERS

Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM

EAGLES

Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM

Giants

Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM

VIKINGS

Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM

Lions

Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM

BEARS

Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM

Broncos

Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM

Bears

Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM

RAVENS

Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM

Vikings