Announcement PH Beta → Check it out! Click Me! (you might be see "unsafe", but it is safe)
all_about_da_packers
16 years ago

mainly the reason is that our defense not only has been getting killed by the other team's run but also the other team's TE's, Moss hasn't done that great of a job, secondly if Moss we're to be the D/C people don't realize that we would be keeping the same scheme which please don't let that happen or we're doomed again. We need a D/C that will change the scheme and get some effective blitzing and make our superstar linebackers play pro bowl level

"krazygangsta" wrote:



Actually, the other teams TE hasn't hurt us as much this year compared to last year. There have been occasions, like Owen Daniels of the Texans making big catches in the final drive to set up the game winning FG, but all in all we've improved considerably in TE coverage. We aren't getting killed by big plays from TEs any more.


Also, the scheme isn't a problem. It's the same scheme used by the successful Dolphins and Jim Bates in the late 90s when the Dolphins were great Defensively. It's the scheme that was brought into prominence by Jimmy Johnson during his successful stint as the Dallas Cowboys HC in early 90s.


There aren't many other 4-3 schemes this team can run, and we don't have the personnel to switch to a 3-4. I think the only other scheme that might be considered is a Tampa-2, but that's not a clearly more efficient and productive scheme.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
ILikeThePackers39
16 years ago


There aren't many other 4-3 schemes this team can run, and we don't have the personnel to switch to a 3-4. I think the only other scheme that might be considered is a Tampa-2, but that's not a clearly more efficient and productive scheme.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:




Well, while I'll admit up front that I don't know how all the schemes inter-relate, I think we've got good personnel (assuming Jenkins comes back and we can find a new guy to fill KGB's role) to run a scheme like the Eagles and Giants run. For one, we've got the personnel in the secondary to man-up on the WRs and free the LB corps and a safety to attack the ball. For another, we've got very good team speed.

I'm no defensive guru, and I don't claim to be. But I do think we've got the people to run that kind of defense. Not the 3-4, though, I totally agree about that.
blank
go.pack.go.
16 years ago


There aren't many other 4-3 schemes this team can run, and we don't have the personnel to switch to a 3-4. I think the only other scheme that might be considered is a Tampa-2, but that's not a clearly more efficient and productive scheme.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:




Well, while I'll admit up front that I don't know how all the schemes inter-relate, I think we've got good personnel (assuming Jenkins comes back and we can find a new guy to fill KGB's role) to run a scheme like the Eagles and Giants run. For one, we've got the personnel in the secondary to man-up on the WRs and free the LB corps and a safety to attack the ball. For another, we've got very good team speed.

I'm no defensive guru, and I don't claim to be. But I do think we've got the people to run that kind of defense. Not the 3-4, though, I totally agree about that.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Sorry, off topic. But your avatar creeps the shit out of me.

Anyway, I don't have any desire to keep him around. I also think we can run a scheme similar to the Eagles and Giants.
UserPostedImage
all_about_da_packers
16 years ago

Well, while I'll admit up front that I don't know how all the schemes inter-relate, I think we've got good personnel (assuming Jenkins comes back and we can find a new guy to fill KGB's role) to run a scheme like the Eagles and Giants run. For one, we've got the personnel in the secondary to man-up on the WRs and free the LB corps and a safety to attack the ball. For another, we've got very good team speed.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:




The Packers employ a 4-3 cover 1 (man-to-man press), and other 4-3 variants include cover 2 (Tampa 2), Cover 3, and quarters.

The Eagles and Giants employ a much more diverse style of 4-3, meaning they mix up their coverages from cover 1, quarters, cover 3, etc. The Packers differ mainly because they employ almost exclusively cover 1, and some quarters coverage.


The premise of the 4-3 D, whether it's cover 1/2/3/quarters is that you have a d-line that gets pressure on the QB. The coverage in turn is supposed to give you the extra time to get to the QB, giving the QB no immediate check downs in the face of coming pressure.

Regardless of us changing from Cover 1 to any other 4-3 scheme, we're going to struggle because we lack the fundamental necessity; we don't have a decent pass rush. Our d-line is a weakness, and that's a major no-no 4-3 scheme.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
go.pack.go.
16 years ago

Well, while I'll admit up front that I don't know how all the schemes inter-relate, I think we've got good personnel (assuming Jenkins comes back and we can find a new guy to fill KGB's role) to run a scheme like the Eagles and Giants run. For one, we've got the personnel in the secondary to man-up on the WRs and free the LB corps and a safety to attack the ball. For another, we've got very good team speed.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:




The Packers employ a 4-3 cover 1 (man-to-man press), and other 4-3 variants include cover 2 (Tampa 2), Cover 3, and quarters.

The Eagles and Giants employ a much more diverse style of 4-3, meaning they mix up their coverages from cover 1, quarters, cover 3, etc. The Packers differ mainly because they employ almost exclusively cover 1, and some quarters coverage.


The premise of the 4-3 D, whether it's cover 1/2/3/quarters is that you have a d-line that gets pressure on the QB. The coverage in turn is supposed to give you the extra time to get to the QB, giving the QB no immediate check downs in the face of coming pressure.

Regardless of us changing from Cover 1 to any other 4-3 scheme, we're going to struggle because we lack the fundamental necessity; we don't have a decent pass rush. Our d-line is a weakness, and that's a major no-no 4-3 scheme.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



I wonder how good we are in zone, at that. I like the bump and run coverage as it is.
UserPostedImage
all_about_da_packers
16 years ago

I wonder how good we are in zone, at that. I like the bump and run coverage as it is.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



Zone is basically quarters coverage.

Think of the field as being divided into 4 parts, the 2 CBs and 2 Safties are responsible 1/4 of the field. CBs cover the side lines, Safties cover the the deep. The LBs cover the intermediate middle of the field.

The problem with Zone is that the coverage leaves gaps, so if there is enough time than a WR/TE can run a route and settle in the gaps between coverage, basically giving the QB an easy target to hit with time, if no pressure exists.

That's just a basic idea of 4-3 Quarters though, technically you have a chess match, can blitz / overload one side based on the formation. It's all the variances that a DC can add.

Quarters is designed to limit the big play though. If I'm not mistaken, on the infamous 4th and 26, MS over ruled Ed Donatell, and made the Packers play quarters coverage.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Pack93z
16 years ago


I wonder how good we are in zone, at that. I like the bump and run coverage as it is.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



Other than Woodson.. we don't have corners that play well in space at this time.. they have been groomed to play bump and run with a cover two safety coverage over the top.. Williams might be okay in zone.. but Harris and Bush are awful.

One of the main flaws in this scheme, IMO, is that we don't drop the backers into shorts zones and minimize the drag routes that seem kill us underneath.. especially with stack formations. Additionally it would help on the flare routes allowing the backers to keep everything in front of them.. playing them strict man with a bad pass rush, allows the backers to trail in coverage and play in a chase position.. allowing for more explosive plays.

Brass nuts boys.. almost every base 4-3 package needs an effective front four to generate pass rush.. the exceptions are the zone blitz packages that try to throw off the QB and line.. zone blitz packages have inherent holes in them due to its primal nature.. if you don't get home on the blitz.. you are toast more often than not with a poised QB.

Our Dline, was awful at pass rush, but not as terrible in run defense as undisciplined in their responsibilities.. guys jumping out of contain.. add to it a tentative backing corps (dfost.. 😉 ) and you have a porous run defense.

We are running a 4-3 unless we do a major overhaul on the roster.. we just need better penetration and discipline along the dline and more aggression from the backers in run defense and better play recognition.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
go.pack.go.
16 years ago
Well then, I don't like Quarters coverage.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
16 years ago

Well then, I don't like Quarters coverage.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



Zone is primarily used to keep everything in front of you.. make a play downhill.. it also is used to trick a QB by moving the "soft" points of the zone.. trying to make them throw into the "teeth: of the zone..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
all_about_da_packers
16 years ago

Other than Woodson.. we don't have corners that play well in space at this time.. they have been groomed to play bump and run with a cover two safety coverage over the top.. Williams might be okay in zone.. but Harris and Bush are awful.

"pack93z" wrote:



I wonder 93z, which type of player do you think is best suited for zone?

Personally, I think the best type of DBs for zone are the beastly athletic players, who have a good knowledge of offensive formations and motions.

Woodson fits the bill completely, he is super athletic but also extremely smart (in a football sense).

Other athletic DBs include Blackmon, Bush, and Collins. All three are great athletes, but the problem is they can't recognize and diagnose offensive sets. Basically they have the talent physically to excel in zone, but when it comes to pre-snap recognition, they are totally clueless.

Hence why we struggle so much at zone coverage, our DBs react too late, because they struggle to diagnose the pre-snap formations of the Offense.

Harris as you said doesn't have the style to pull off playing zone effectively, but I'm wondering if Tramon might fit the bill. Might be something to look at with a new DC, if he can help our DBs get better at pre-snap recognition.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Similar Topics
Users browsing this topic
    Fan Shout
    go.pack.go. (2h) : I figured out the signature thing. I had to find a different hosting website
    Zero2Cool (8h) : Packers elevated S Omar Brown.
    go.pack.go. (10h) : I tried the [img][/img] but that didn’t work
    go.pack.go. (10h) : How do I upload a picture to change my signature? I haven’t done it in years lol. I have the picture but can’t get it to work
    Mucky Tundra (10h) : Saturday NFL games=the season is about to get serious
    Mucky Tundra (28-Dec) : Greg Gumbel passed away today after bout with cancer.
    buckeyepackfan (27-Dec) : 1 NFC South @ NFC West @ AFC West other 3 games,
    buckeyepackfan (27-Dec) : Packers play NFC East and AFC North in 2025, plus 2 other games
    Mucky Tundra (27-Dec) : Geeze Zero get it right!😋
    Zero2Cool (27-Dec) : I guess 3 games. Whatever
    Zero2Cool (27-Dec) : Bleh, that only impacts two games.
    Zero2Cool (27-Dec) : Packers are gonna get 3rd place division schedule next year.
    Mucky Tundra (27-Dec) : Kanata, seek help! lol
    beast (27-Dec) : I was rooting for the Bears to win and hurt their draft pick status
    Zero2Cool (27-Dec) : Forgot there was even a game last night haha
    TheKanataThrilla (27-Dec) : That was terrible.
    TheKanataThrilla (27-Dec) : Watching that game in its entirety yesterday is proof positive that I am a football addict.
    beast (27-Dec) : And horrible time management multiple times... and not being able to score more than 3 points on a team with talent
    beast (27-Dec) : Realizing the Bears didn't fix it from the previous week and do the same thing, getting the game to overtime
    beast (27-Dec) : They probably are not tanking, but they've absolutely mismanagement some things, such as Vikings seeing the Packers blocked FG and realizing
    Zero2Cool (27-Dec) : Crazy of Bears to have that mindset that is
    Zero2Cool (27-Dec) : Hail Mary stop away from 5 - 2. Not sure how that flips to tanking. Crazy mindset if true
    beast (27-Dec) : I've quietly questioned if Bears are tanking on purpose... they suddenly got a lot worse with some simple concepts like 101 clock management
    wpr (27-Dec) : Watching bares fans melt down over how putrid their team is, so enjoyable. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
    Mucky Tundra (27-Dec) : The Seattle Seahawks defeat the Chicago Bears 6-3. Jason Myers had 6 RBIs for Seattle while Cairo Santos had 3 RBI for Chicago
    beast (27-Dec) : Not nessarily, he might of been injured either way. He's playing about 50% of the games the last 4 years
    Zero2Cool (26-Dec) : If they'd been more patient with him, he'd be back already. Putting him out there vs Bears caused him to tweak it and here we are.
    packerfanoutwest (26-Dec) : well this is his last season with the PAck, book it
    beast (26-Dec) : Sounds like no Alexander (again), I'm wondering if his time with the Packers is done
    Zero2Cool (26-Dec) : Could ban beast and I still don't think anyone catches him.
    Mucky Tundra (26-Dec) : Houston getting dog walked by Baltimore
    packerfanoutwest (25-Dec) : Feliz Navidad!
    Zero2Cool (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas!
    beast (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
    beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
    packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
    Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
    Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
    buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
    buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
    Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
    Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
    packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
    packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
    packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
    bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
    bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2024 Packers Schedule
    Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
    Eagles
    29 - 34
    Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
    COLTS
    16 - 10
    Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
    Titans
    30 - 14
    Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    29 - 31
    Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
    Rams
    24 - 19
    Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
    CARDINALS
    34 - 13
    Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
    TEXANS
    24 - 22
    Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
    Jaguars
    30 - 27
    Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
    LIONS
    14 - 24
    Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
    Bears
    20 - 19
    Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
    49ERS
    38 - 10
    Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
    DOLPHINS
    30 - 17
    Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
    Lions
    31 - 34
    Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
    Seahawks
    30 - 13
    Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
    SAINTS
    34 - 0
    Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
    Vikings
    Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
    BEARS
    Recent Topics
    2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / go.pack.go.

    4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

    27-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    27-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    27-Dec / Random Babble / Martha Careful

    27-Dec / Around The NFL / Martha Careful

    27-Dec / Random Babble / Mucky Tundra

    27-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    25-Dec / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

    25-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    25-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    25-Dec / GameDay Threads / bboystyle

    24-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    24-Dec / Random Babble / beast

    24-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.