Announcement NEED YOUR TESTING HELP! Please bounce around PackerPeople.com using your same PackersHome login/password and let me know if it's good, bad, needs fixed, etc ... I wanna get some decent testing before going live.
ILikeThePackers39
16 years ago

Well, while I'll admit up front that I don't know how all the schemes inter-relate, I think we've got good personnel (assuming Jenkins comes back and we can find a new guy to fill KGB's role) to run a scheme like the Eagles and Giants run. For one, we've got the personnel in the secondary to man-up on the WRs and free the LB corps and a safety to attack the ball. For another, we've got very good team speed.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:




The Packers employ a 4-3 cover 1 (man-to-man press), and other 4-3 variants include cover 2 (Tampa 2), Cover 3, and quarters.

The Eagles and Giants employ a much more diverse style of 4-3, meaning they mix up their coverages from cover 1, quarters, cover 3, etc. The Packers differ mainly because they employ almost exclusively cover 1, and some quarters coverage.


The premise of the 4-3 D, whether it's cover 1/2/3/quarters is that you have a d-line that gets pressure on the QB. The coverage in turn is supposed to give you the extra time to get to the QB, giving the QB no immediate check downs in the face of coming pressure.

Regardless of us changing from Cover 1 to any other 4-3 scheme, we're going to struggle because we lack the fundamental necessity; we don't have a decent pass rush. Our d-line is a weakness, and that's a major no-no 4-3 scheme.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:




Cool. Good info, thanks. Doesn't change my mind, though - we need to do work on our D line in any case. I don't think there's a scheme out there that allows for a weak D line and no QB pressures. Assuming (and therefore making an ass out of U and ME) we do something about that DL personnel, I think we've got the makings of a group than can run a variant of the Johnson/Spagnuolo-style 4-3.

More importantly, guys like Johnson seem (I'm not going to pretend I've done extensive study on this, at least not yet) to be far more able to adjust to game situations than our staff. If that's a product of them running such diverse schemes, then that's more reason for me to want something like that in GB - if it's simply that those coaches are that far superior to guys like Sanders, then I still want one.
blank
go.pack.go.
16 years ago
Our best athlete in our secondary in my opinion is Will Blackmon. Look at some of the stuff he does in kick/punt returns. He's knocked on his back, and he jumps from his back to his feet. (WOW). Last week vs. the lions, he caught the punt while laying on his back. (the play before the free kick).
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
16 years ago

Other than Woodson.. we don't have corners that play well in space at this time.. they have been groomed to play bump and run with a cover two safety coverage over the top.. Williams might be okay in zone.. but Harris and Bush are awful.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



I wonder 93z, which type of player do you think is best suited for zone?

Personally, I think the best type of DBs for zone are the beastly athletic players, who have a good knowledge of offensive formations and motions.

Woodson fits the bill completely, he is super athletic but also extremely smart (in a football sense).

Other athletic DBs include Blackmon, Bush, and Collins. All three are great athletes, but the problem is they can't recognize and diagnose offensive sets. Basically they have the talent physically to excel in zone, but when it comes to pre-snap recognition, they are totally clueless.

Hence why we struggle so much at zone coverage, our DBs react too late, because they struggle to diagnose the pre-snap formations of the Offense.

Harris as you said doesn't have the style to pull off playing zone effectively, but I'm wondering if Tramon might fit the bill. Might be something to look at with a new DC, if he can help our DBs get better at pre-snap recognition.

"pack93z" wrote:



Agreed.. you nailed the profile.. you have to have very disciplined corners to play zone.. they have to be able to read the play as it is developing and break correctly.. in man.. your responsibilities are lessened mentally.. you have you man..

Blackmon hasn't shown the awareness on the field that I would like.. you can see that in punter returns.. he makes some questionable reads and decisions.. in zone.. you are toast if you make a wrong break.

Lee is very physical from what I seen in camp.. has great short area quickness and could develop into a nice blended corner..

Bush.. I don't know what happened to this kid.. he went from a developing player and kind of fell off.. has the physical tools.. just not clicking upstairs I think.

Williams.. I think he is a fine players.. he has the physical set you are looking for in a zone corner IMO.. just haven't seen him really play in space.. seems very instinctive.. I think Woodson has taken this kid under his wing.. watch how he plays.. becoming a clone.

Woodson would become a fine coach when it is said and done in my opinion.. listen to Collins speak about it..

Back to Moss.. waiting word... hope his visit goes well.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
all_about_da_packers
16 years ago

Cool. Good info, thanks. Doesn't change my mind, though - we need to do work on our D line in any case.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



Totally agree.


More importantly, guys like Johnson seem (I'm not going to pretend I've done extensive study on this, at least not yet) to be far more able to adjust to game situations than our staff.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



I think it's important to point out that the best DCs in football: Jim Johnson, Dick LeBeau, Monte Kiffin are all 70 years old (give or take a couple of years).

I agree, they seem far more prepared to make effective adjustments, but I wonder if its because they've had a chance to pretty much see it all, thus having an effective counter.

That's not to say those three are so good because of just their experience, they've built some great units with less than stellar talent, but I think it's fair to say they are able to make more effective in-game adjustments because they are so experienced, they can liken any new formations to other previously seen, and go about exposing the weak points.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
ILikeThePackers39
16 years ago

Cool. Good info, thanks. Doesn't change my mind, though - we need to do work on our D line in any case.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Totally agree.


More importantly, guys like Johnson seem (I'm not going to pretend I've done extensive study on this, at least not yet) to be far more able to adjust to game situations than our staff.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



I think it's important to point out that the best DCs in football: Jim Johnson, Dick LeBeau, Monte Kiffin are all 70 years old (give or take a couple of years).

I agree, they seem far more prepared to make effective adjustments, but I wonder if its because they've had a chance to pretty much see it all, thus having an effective counter.

That's not to say those three are so good because of just their experience, they've built some great units with less than stellar talent, but I think it's fair to say they are able to make more effective in-game adjustments because they are so experienced, they can liken any new formations to other previously seen, and go about exposing the weak points.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:




I'd bet the experience has plenty to do with it, no doubt. Then again, Spags seems to react and adjust well - granted, he's a Johnson disciple, but he sure can think on the fly.

I wonder, though; if those schemes are so diverse, wouldn't that lend itself to more ease in adjusting to different situations? Sort of like the flexibility is somewhat baked into the scheme?

Okay, now I'm just starting to think out loud.
blank
Pack93z
16 years ago


I think it's important to point out that the best DCs in football: Jim Johnson, Dick LeBeau, Monte Kiffin are all 70 years old (give or take a couple of years).

I agree, they seem far more prepared to make effective adjustments, but I wonder if its because they've had a chance to pretty much see it all, thus having an effective counter.

That's not to say those three are so good because of just their experience, they've built some great units with less than stellar talent, but I think it's fair to say they are able to make more effective in-game adjustments because they are so experienced, they can liken any new formations to other previously seen, and go about exposing the weak points.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Now we are talking.. playing defense is liken to playing a game of chess.. there is a built in intuition on the DC to make adjustments to what the offense is doing and be varied enough in your looks to keep the offense off balance and tip their hand a bit.

Call whatever scheme you want.. but if you don't have enough variation in the scheme or play lights out.. you are going to get beat in the passing game.. our pass defense wasn't terrible given the lack of pressure..

We didn't generate pressure and failed to play stout and disciplined enough in the run defense..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
all_about_da_packers
16 years ago

Now we are talking.. playing defense is liken to playing a game of chess.. there is a built in intuition on the DC to make adjustments to what the offense is doing and be varied enough in your looks to keep the offense off balance and tip their hand a bit.

"pack93z" wrote:



So true. Outside of the Packers, I love watching the Ravens simply because you see the chess match playing out on their D. The adjustments they make after they line up, the shifts and all the players moving around is a sight of beauty, so exhilarating.


Call whatever scheme you want.. but if you don't have enough variation in the scheme or play lights out.. you are going to get beat in the passing game.. our pass defense wasn't terrible given the lack of pressure..

"pack93z" wrote:



I think this is the main flaw with this scheme. It isn't overly complex, it is predicated on the idea that we'll keep our stuff simple on D, but execute it to a higher level than the opposing Offense.

Unfortunately, somewhere between weeks 7 and 17 our ability to execute the D went out the window.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (18h) : Soft hope plan is having fantasy football weekly on-site that i build. cannot do that with this setup.
Zero2Cool (18h) : It's older technology, resource hog, cannot be upgraded/changed. That's to start.
packerfanoutwest (18h) : Ok, but what is wrong with this site?
Zero2Cool (20h) : check out packerpeople.com
Mucky Tundra (25-Aug) : Oh crap I missed that! I thought it was a 2026 pick
Zero2Cool (25-Aug) : It wasn't even next year pick, it's two years away. old dog food value
Mucky Tundra (25-Aug) : Yep! Everytime a team trades with Howie that team is the loser (so says the media)
Zero2Cool (25-Aug) : We are hosed.
Mucky Tundra (25-Aug) : Per Schefter, GB is sending a 6th rounder for OT Darian Kennard
Zero2Cool (24-Aug) : Finally got new site to keep folks logged in. New tech is pain sometimes
dfosterf (23-Aug) : Taylor Elgersma is going to be very hard to hide.
Mucky Tundra (23-Aug) : Matthew Golden=DAWG (so load the wagons!!) !!!!!
dfosterf (18-Aug) : We do have good depth at running back imo. Still so frustrating. Bitching about it is a futile excercise, which I plan to do anyway.
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : Whoops, I thought Zero was saying it was a surprise the Brewers lost and not Lloyd being hurt
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : Not a surprise; inevitable
Zero2Cool (17-Aug) : Brewers streak ends at 14
Zero2Cool (17-Aug) : SURPRISE
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : @mattschneidman Matt LaFleur on MarShawn Lloyd: “He’s gonna miss some time.”
Mucky Tundra (16-Aug) : CLIFFORD WITH THE TD WITH UNDER 2 TO GO!!!!!
Zero2Cool (16-Aug) : 90 MINUTES UNTIL FAKE KICKOFF!!
Martha Careful (16-Aug) : I think Ruven is a bot, but regardless should be stricken from the site.
Zero2Cool (14-Aug) : Packers RB Josh Jacobs ranked No. 33 in NFL 'Top 100'
dfosterf (13-Aug) : The LVN Musgrave collision- Andy Herman said Musgrave seemed to be the one most impacted injury-wise
dfosterf (13-Aug) : a lower back injury
dfosterf (13-Aug) : Doubs says he's "fine" after injury scare. Some reported it as z
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : With LVN that is; need to see what happens in the next practice
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : beast, reading about what happened, it sounded like one of those "two guys collide and are moving slow afterwards" type of deals
beast (12-Aug) : I believe Musgrave has been injured every single season since at least a Sophomore in highschool
packerfanoutwest (12-Aug) : Matt LaFleur: “Highly unlikely” Jordan Love plays more this preseason
dfosterf (12-Aug) : Doubs, Savion Williams, LVN, Musgrave all banged up to one degree or another, missing one here I forget
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : RB Tyrion Davis-Price is signing with the Green Bay Packers.
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : zero help, dominated. preseason
beast (12-Aug) : QB Jordan Love has surgery
beast (12-Aug) : Martha said Morgan had a lot of help, I didn't watch the OL so I can't say.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers LT Jordan Morgan did not allow a single pressure across 23 pass-blocking snaps vs. Jets last night, per PFF
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : With buckeye and the reasonable couple, we're currently sitting at 10
buckeyepackfan (10-Aug) : Just posted to re-up on our FFL.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : If healthy after, then thats all I care. Well, no drops would be nice
wpr (10-Aug) : I made it through the 1st Q.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Just gotta figure out how.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Could have been a worse start, so there is that.
beast (10-Aug) : Yeah, someone tell the Packers football season has started, seems like they weren't ready for it
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : Sooooooo many penalties
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : It may only be preseason, but this game is a trip to the dentist
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do bad -- FREAK OUT!!!!!!
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do good -- eh only preseason
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Well that half was fun
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Great, zayne is down
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : 13 minutes away from kickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkoffff
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Had Celebration of Life for my uncle up north. wicked rain hope it dont come south
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
20m / Green Bay Packers Talk / isaiah

7h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

8h / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

9h / Fantasy Sports Talk / porky88

25-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

24-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

24-Aug / Around The NFL / beast

23-Aug / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

22-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

21-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

19-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

18-Aug / Around The NFL / isaiah

18-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

17-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.