beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
4 years ago

Why Green Bay should friend zone Kevin King. The Green Bay Packers ’ defense wasn’t bad last year, which is a nice change. What’s not a nice change is just how much it looked like a Dom Capers defense in that they really focused on pass defense while suffering mightily on run defense, and that lack of run-stopping eventually cost the team in the playoffs. Green Bay was also extremely dependent on interceptions to get stops, which is a dangerous place to be in the modern NFL.
While they were a pretty good defense, they also never seemed to add up to the sum of their parts. By DVOA , they were 9th against the pass and 23rd against the run, good for 15th overall. That’s fine, but between the Smiths and Kenny Clark , they presented one of the most fearsome pass rushes in the league. Jaire Alexander  looks to be outstanding, and the safety position is stronger than it’s been in years. They did have some obvious problems like Dean Lowry ’s regression and poor play from the inside linebacker position, but they also suffered from a serious, but subtle problem highlighted in the just released Football Outsider 2020 almanac. Namely:
The Packers defense struggled when blitzing last season, allowing 7.8 net yards per pass with 30.2% DVOA. Possibly connected: The Packers had the NFL’s biggest gap between defense in man coverage (8.9 yards per pass, 40.1% DVOA) and zone coverage (6.8 yards per pass, 6.2% DVOA).
(Please note that higher DVOAs are bad for defenses.)
Most teams play a mix of zone and man, and most teams are better in one than the other, but it’s rare for a team to be so good in one and so poor in another. The chief reason for this is the divergent skillsets of Kevin King  and Jaire Alexander . King consistently rates as one of the best man corners in the NFL by many metrics. Doug Farrar, writing at Touchdown Wire , recently ranked him 11th, and wrote:
At 6’3″ and 200 pounds, King is one of the better new wave of big, physical press conerbacks developing right now. Aggressive to a fault off the line of scrimmage (and occasionally too grabby), King makes quick slants and drag routes very difficult for opposing receivers, because he has the size, physicality, and short-area quickness to erase those concepts.
King also excels in the Red Zone , which, combined with his man prowess, makes him pretty valuable. But King is also a weird player, and he struggles mightily in zone. That’s a problem because Jaire Alexander excels in zone and, more importantly, because the Packers played 68% of their snaps in zone last season (15th in the league, smack dab in the middle).
Alexander was ranked 6th among zone corners by Farrar , which does square with his tape. I suspect Alexander will one day excel in man as well, but for now, he does still get himself beaten too often.
Alexander is an excellent fit for Pettine’s defense, and it would be nice to pair him with a better complement. While you may think that diversity among the corners would allow for the team to remain flexible on defense, it instead creates holes regardless of what style they play.
King’s flaws were especially problematic. He was one of the worst zone defenders in the league, making him an easy target in the Packers’ otherwise formidable zone. King was also a poor tackler against pass-catchers (he was oddly good against running backs), allowing 4.9 YAC per reception, 12th-worst in the league. His adjusted yards allowed, according to Football Outsiders, ranked 77th in the league. All of that said, King’s red zone play and physical presence against larger receivers was extremely valuable in and of itself.
Ideally, the team would specialize in either zone or man, and fall into the other to create confusion. The Packers lean zone, but no more than an average team. Given that they excel in it, it would be nice if both starting corners also specialized in it.
The Blitz
Let’s revisit the Packers’ “possibly related” issues with blitzing. When Green Bay brought 5 or 6 rushers they were atrocious. Thank goodness for the Smiths. When you blitz, you always expose your secondary. If you’re in man, you usually have one fewer safety in the back end, and if the rushers don’t get home, you get burned. If the team stays in zone, it’s common to have a resulting mismatch that can be exploited. With Kevin King  struggling in zone, having to cover more space with no protection behind him, he got burned. A lot.
This was compounded by would-be Packer blitzers being kind of bad at it. Here’s a list of Packers defensive backs with a sack last year:


Adrian Amos  (1)
Kevin King (1)

That’s not good. It’s actually kind of amazing. The good news is the Packers don’t really need to blitz very much with the quality of their pass rush, but it does remove some flexibility from the playbook. The more you can’t do, the easier it is to plan for what you can do.
I have grown to like Kevin King, but I like Alexander more and I like my defenses to make sense. If you cloned Alexander everything would work so much better. To be fair, if you cloned King everything may also work so much better, but this team plays zone a majority of the time. King would probably fit in best as some kind of weird red zone nickel, but he’d fit in better on another team, like the Lions , who played man more than any other team in football.
I wonder if we might see Chandon Sullivan  start to cut into King’s time next year. He was fantastic in a small sample last season, and I think he also just fits into the scheme better. King is a free agent after this season, and if there is a season, don’t be surprised if he’s involved in a surprise trade. He has value, nice counting stats, and would fit nicely elsewhere.




[/URL]      


Continue Reading @ [url=https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2020/7/20/21329272/the-biggest-problem-with-the-packer-defense-kevin-king-jaire-alexander-chandon-sullivan]PaulNoonan 

PaulNoonan wrote:



Kevin King had a very inconsistent year, with being in the top 10 in a number of key positive factors such as passes knocked away, INTs and but also negative factors such as TDs given up.

Even #1 in some positive factors, but in the red zone (despite giving up top 10 of touchdowns) which those two combine explain that he was #1 in yardage given up.

Long story short, Kevin King did very well for himself, but when he got beat, he extremely badly beat, for a huge play for the other team.


This is the best article I've seen (and I've been waiting for them to break down the DBs a bit) of how Long and the DB fit and it makes a great side point that Alexander and King might not be the best together because they're different styles clash.

Sort of like the Packers had a decision to make, to stay with Sam Shields in man coverage, or go with Casey Hayward in zone coverage, they picked Shields and Hayward was allowed to walk (I still say at that low price they should have resigned him).

And yes Zero2Cool in theory they could two different coverages with each, but that creates a system problem if you do it often that I believe only Virginia Tech under Frank Beamer is the only time I can recall where teams attempted to run both all game long at the college or higher level.


But Alexander is one of the top zone coverage CBs in the NFL and with the NFL seemingly going more towards zone coverage right now, especially the cover 3 that the Seahawks made famous, but slight struggles in man coverage especially contested catches.

While King (when not injured) is one of the top man coverage CBs in the NFL, but seriously struggling in zone coverage, and getting badly beaten at times.

Also side note, as the Packers were able to get a lot of pressures, but they were actually one of the worst blitz teams in the NFL, doing much better rushing 4. I kind of also believe that's partly because if they could get pressure with only 4, then why rush more? So they only blitzed when they were already getting beat and basically were doing it out of last resort, so I believe that's more situational.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
4 years ago
Straight up man to man and let the best man win! Zone is for sissies! 😛
UserPostedImage
beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
4 years ago

Straight up man to man and let the best man win! Zone is for sissies! :P

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



One of my biggest question last year, and it slightly bothers me that we STILL don't have an answer, is why didn't we run more man coverage?

I just don't have a great answer, other than maybe zone allowed the play caller more chances to play football chess with a good number of fairly young QBs, but the veterans (whom we're going to see a lot more of this year, killed it at times, especially when they had a good OL). Also maybe it gave a split second longer for the pass rush to get home, and maybe the coaches didn't trust the young players in man coverage or something.

And yeah, it's Alexander weaker area, but even his weak area is still pretty good. But I feel like King and Savage would have been better in man coverage. Amos probably would have been slightly worse.

The LBers would of been shit in man coverage, but we used a lot of dime Safety for that reason anyways.

I just which I got Pettine's reasoning from going from heavier man coverage to heavier zone coverage, when I think King and Savage could potentially be so much better in man coverage.


Also, I'm wondering this year what to do with the slot/dime role. I think it'd be absolutely amazing seeing Savage in Woodson's old role and though he'll have some young growing pains I think he could absolutely become a superstar in that role. Probably is, we also need him in the back end, and while maybe Greene could help fill in at times, if no coverage LB steps it up again, they might be playing a S as a coverage LB a lot again.
UserPostedImage
dyeah_gb
4 years ago
My guess is they were scared of leaving a young or inconsistent DB on an island to get burned with questionable backup from the safety.

Death by a thousand first downs instead of one kill shot. I guess this makes sense. if you can get to the QB 10% of the time, the more snaps the better.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (10-Jul) : Us Padres fans love it....But it'll be a Dodgers/Yankees World Series
Zero2Cool (9-Jul) : Brewers sweep Dodgers. Awesome
Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : And James Flanigan is the grandson of Packers Super Bowl winner Jim Flanigan Sr.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : Jerome Bettis and Jim Flanigans sons as well!
Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Thomas Davis Jr is OLB, not WR. Oops.
Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Larry Fitzgeral and Thomas Davis sons too. WR's as well.
Mucky Tundra (5-Jul) : Kaydon Finley, son of Jermichael Finley, commits to Notre Dame
dfosterf (3-Jul) : Make sure to send my props to him! A plus move!
Zero2Cool (3-Jul) : My cousin, yes.
dfosterf (3-Jul) : That was your brother the GB press gazette referenced with the red cross draft props thing, yes?
Zero2Cool (2-Jul) : Packers gonna unveil new throwback helmet in few weeks.
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : I know it's Kleiman but this stuff writes itself
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : "Make sure she signs the NDA before asking for a Happy Ending!"
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : @NFL_DovKleiman Powerful: Deshaun Watson is taking Shedeur Sanders 'under his wing' as a mentor to the Browns QBs
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Dolphins get (back) Minkah Fitzpatrick in trade
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Steelers land Jalen Ramsey via Trade
dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us
dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.
wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.
Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot
dfosterf (25-Jun) : It also says he is subject to another ballot in 2028. I recall nothing of this nature with Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.
Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : @SharpFootball WR Diontae Johnson just admitted he refused to enter a game in 41° weather last year in Baltimore because he felt “ice cold”
Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.
Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.
Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH
beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : According to Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Packers are working on extension for LT Walker they hope to have done before camp
dfosterf (18-Jun) : E4B landed at Andrews last night
dfosterf (18-Jun) : 101 in a 60
dfosterf (18-Jun) : FAFO
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : one year $4m with incentives to make it up to $6m
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Or Lions
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Beats the hell out of a Vikings signing
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : Baltimore Ravens now have signed former Packers CB Jaire Alexander.
dfosterf (14-Jun) : TWO magnificent strikes for touchdowns. Lose the pennstate semigeezer non nfl backup
dfosterf (14-Jun) : There was minicamp Thursday. My man Taylor Engersma threw
dfosterf (11-Jun) : There will be a mini camp practice Thursday.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
10-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

10-Jul / Around The NFL / Zero2Cool

6-Jul / Random Babble / Martha Careful

4-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

2-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

2-Jul / Fantasy Sports Talk / dfosterf

1-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Jun / Around The NFL / Martha Careful

23-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

18-Jun / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

16-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.