beast
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4 years ago

Why Green Bay should friend zone Kevin King. The Green Bay Packers ’ defense wasn’t bad last year, which is a nice change. What’s not a nice change is just how much it looked like a Dom Capers defense in that they really focused on pass defense while suffering mightily on run defense, and that lack of run-stopping eventually cost the team in the playoffs. Green Bay was also extremely dependent on interceptions to get stops, which is a dangerous place to be in the modern NFL.
While they were a pretty good defense, they also never seemed to add up to the sum of their parts. By DVOA , they were 9th against the pass and 23rd against the run, good for 15th overall. That’s fine, but between the Smiths and Kenny Clark , they presented one of the most fearsome pass rushes in the league. Jaire Alexander  looks to be outstanding, and the safety position is stronger than it’s been in years. They did have some obvious problems like Dean Lowry ’s regression and poor play from the inside linebacker position, but they also suffered from a serious, but subtle problem highlighted in the just released Football Outsider 2020 almanac. Namely:
The Packers defense struggled when blitzing last season, allowing 7.8 net yards per pass with 30.2% DVOA. Possibly connected: The Packers had the NFL’s biggest gap between defense in man coverage (8.9 yards per pass, 40.1% DVOA) and zone coverage (6.8 yards per pass, 6.2% DVOA).
(Please note that higher DVOAs are bad for defenses.)
Most teams play a mix of zone and man, and most teams are better in one than the other, but it’s rare for a team to be so good in one and so poor in another. The chief reason for this is the divergent skillsets of Kevin King  and Jaire Alexander . King consistently rates as one of the best man corners in the NFL by many metrics. Doug Farrar, writing at Touchdown Wire , recently ranked him 11th, and wrote:
At 6’3″ and 200 pounds, King is one of the better new wave of big, physical press conerbacks developing right now. Aggressive to a fault off the line of scrimmage (and occasionally too grabby), King makes quick slants and drag routes very difficult for opposing receivers, because he has the size, physicality, and short-area quickness to erase those concepts.
King also excels in the Red Zone , which, combined with his man prowess, makes him pretty valuable. But King is also a weird player, and he struggles mightily in zone. That’s a problem because Jaire Alexander excels in zone and, more importantly, because the Packers played 68% of their snaps in zone last season (15th in the league, smack dab in the middle).
Alexander was ranked 6th among zone corners by Farrar , which does square with his tape. I suspect Alexander will one day excel in man as well, but for now, he does still get himself beaten too often.
Alexander is an excellent fit for Pettine’s defense, and it would be nice to pair him with a better complement. While you may think that diversity among the corners would allow for the team to remain flexible on defense, it instead creates holes regardless of what style they play.
King’s flaws were especially problematic. He was one of the worst zone defenders in the league, making him an easy target in the Packers’ otherwise formidable zone. King was also a poor tackler against pass-catchers (he was oddly good against running backs), allowing 4.9 YAC per reception, 12th-worst in the league. His adjusted yards allowed, according to Football Outsiders, ranked 77th in the league. All of that said, King’s red zone play and physical presence against larger receivers was extremely valuable in and of itself.
Ideally, the team would specialize in either zone or man, and fall into the other to create confusion. The Packers lean zone, but no more than an average team. Given that they excel in it, it would be nice if both starting corners also specialized in it.
The Blitz
Let’s revisit the Packers’ “possibly related” issues with blitzing. When Green Bay brought 5 or 6 rushers they were atrocious. Thank goodness for the Smiths. When you blitz, you always expose your secondary. If you’re in man, you usually have one fewer safety in the back end, and if the rushers don’t get home, you get burned. If the team stays in zone, it’s common to have a resulting mismatch that can be exploited. With Kevin King  struggling in zone, having to cover more space with no protection behind him, he got burned. A lot.
This was compounded by would-be Packer blitzers being kind of bad at it. Here’s a list of Packers defensive backs with a sack last year:


Adrian Amos  (1)
Kevin King (1)

That’s not good. It’s actually kind of amazing. The good news is the Packers don’t really need to blitz very much with the quality of their pass rush, but it does remove some flexibility from the playbook. The more you can’t do, the easier it is to plan for what you can do.
I have grown to like Kevin King, but I like Alexander more and I like my defenses to make sense. If you cloned Alexander everything would work so much better. To be fair, if you cloned King everything may also work so much better, but this team plays zone a majority of the time. King would probably fit in best as some kind of weird red zone nickel, but he’d fit in better on another team, like the Lions , who played man more than any other team in football.
I wonder if we might see Chandon Sullivan  start to cut into King’s time next year. He was fantastic in a small sample last season, and I think he also just fits into the scheme better. King is a free agent after this season, and if there is a season, don’t be surprised if he’s involved in a surprise trade. He has value, nice counting stats, and would fit nicely elsewhere.




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Continue Reading @ [url=https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2020/7/20/21329272/the-biggest-problem-with-the-packer-defense-kevin-king-jaire-alexander-chandon-sullivan]PaulNoonan 

PaulNoonan wrote:



Kevin King had a very inconsistent year, with being in the top 10 in a number of key positive factors such as passes knocked away, INTs and but also negative factors such as TDs given up.

Even #1 in some positive factors, but in the red zone (despite giving up top 10 of touchdowns) which those two combine explain that he was #1 in yardage given up.

Long story short, Kevin King did very well for himself, but when he got beat, he extremely badly beat, for a huge play for the other team.


This is the best article I've seen (and I've been waiting for them to break down the DBs a bit) of how Long and the DB fit and it makes a great side point that Alexander and King might not be the best together because they're different styles clash.

Sort of like the Packers had a decision to make, to stay with Sam Shields in man coverage, or go with Casey Hayward in zone coverage, they picked Shields and Hayward was allowed to walk (I still say at that low price they should have resigned him).

And yes Zero2Cool in theory they could two different coverages with each, but that creates a system problem if you do it often that I believe only Virginia Tech under Frank Beamer is the only time I can recall where teams attempted to run both all game long at the college or higher level.


But Alexander is one of the top zone coverage CBs in the NFL and with the NFL seemingly going more towards zone coverage right now, especially the cover 3 that the Seahawks made famous, but slight struggles in man coverage especially contested catches.

While King (when not injured) is one of the top man coverage CBs in the NFL, but seriously struggling in zone coverage, and getting badly beaten at times.

Also side note, as the Packers were able to get a lot of pressures, but they were actually one of the worst blitz teams in the NFL, doing much better rushing 4. I kind of also believe that's partly because if they could get pressure with only 4, then why rush more? So they only blitzed when they were already getting beat and basically were doing it out of last resort, so I believe that's more situational.
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Zero2Cool
4 years ago
Straight up man to man and let the best man win! Zone is for sissies! 😛
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beast
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4 years ago

Straight up man to man and let the best man win! Zone is for sissies! :P

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



One of my biggest question last year, and it slightly bothers me that we STILL don't have an answer, is why didn't we run more man coverage?

I just don't have a great answer, other than maybe zone allowed the play caller more chances to play football chess with a good number of fairly young QBs, but the veterans (whom we're going to see a lot more of this year, killed it at times, especially when they had a good OL). Also maybe it gave a split second longer for the pass rush to get home, and maybe the coaches didn't trust the young players in man coverage or something.

And yeah, it's Alexander weaker area, but even his weak area is still pretty good. But I feel like King and Savage would have been better in man coverage. Amos probably would have been slightly worse.

The LBers would of been shit in man coverage, but we used a lot of dime Safety for that reason anyways.

I just which I got Pettine's reasoning from going from heavier man coverage to heavier zone coverage, when I think King and Savage could potentially be so much better in man coverage.


Also, I'm wondering this year what to do with the slot/dime role. I think it'd be absolutely amazing seeing Savage in Woodson's old role and though he'll have some young growing pains I think he could absolutely become a superstar in that role. Probably is, we also need him in the back end, and while maybe Greene could help fill in at times, if no coverage LB steps it up again, they might be playing a S as a coverage LB a lot again.
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dyeah_gb
4 years ago
My guess is they were scared of leaving a young or inconsistent DB on an island to get burned with questionable backup from the safety.

Death by a thousand first downs instead of one kill shot. I guess this makes sense. if you can get to the QB 10% of the time, the more snaps the better.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (3h) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (10h) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (16h) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (16h) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : And with a Pass Rush that might as well be on a milk cartoon and no Jaire
Martha Careful (10-Feb) : I cant help but feel good about how well the Packers D played in Philly during the playoffs
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