TheKanataThrilla
4 years ago

Hyde and Hayward.....just what I have said in the past. Letting good players go, and trying to fill those voids in the draft. Kids coming out of college rarely make a huge impact right away. Some not for several seasons. So you let known good guys leave for “best player available” hopes. Hopes that may never develop.
I know you can’t keep everyone. And I agree that better 1year early then 1 year late. But guys that are good and not over the hill, you need to hold onto if you want a shot at a championship.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



But Randall and Rollins both had decent rookie years which made losing Hayward and Hyde palatable. Hayward was injured quite a bit and Hyde was decent, but got big bucks by the Bills for what he provided to Green Bay. Unfortunately that was likely because he was not in the correct position.
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

Have you actually seen any team do that for an entire season? Or even 8 games?

Originally Posted by: beast 


Asking a loaded question says more about the one asking, and the one asked.

I know they it's a fairly common short term strategy to deal with certain players it certain teams, but I haven't seen (or if I did, didn't realize it) that any team has consistently done it the majority of multiple back to back to back games.

I believe the reason for that is because it can create even more problems with different half of the field working differently than the other, so just get the WRs to cross, and the guy in man wants to stay in man, and the guy in zone wants to stay in zone... so now you can two guys on one WR and a WR running free and wide open.

Originally Posted by: beast 



My point is if you have someone who is good at Man and someone who is good at Zone, there are options to utilize both.

Random thought ... When Jets had Darrelle Revis and locked him on someone, did they play zone or man? I am not saying Hayward or Shields were Revis level, just using an example that I think most can be familiar with.
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Zero2Cool
4 years ago

Hyde and Hayward.....just what I have said in the past. Letting good players go, and trying to fill those voids in the draft. Kids coming out of college rarely make a huge impact right away. Some not for several seasons. So you let known good guys leave for “best player available” hopes. Hopes that may never develop.
I know you can’t keep everyone. And I agree that better 1year early then 1 year late. But guys that are good and not over the hill, you need to hold onto if you want a shot at a championship.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



The (speculating based on actions taken) belief was they had reached their ceiling with the Packers. And they drafted (more speculating) best player available and that made Hyde and Hayward expendable. If you have youth coming in that you perceive to have a higher ceiling than those who are commanding large contracts and have hit their ceiling, your decision is made for you.

I'm not at all upset about Hyde or Hayward. Hyde I thought was a great utility guy. Hayward I thought was over rated by us Packers fans.


Jared Cook ... that guy I would have liked to have retained. Something fishy happened there. I read reports the Packers offered something similar to Raiders and because the Packers didn't offer it fast enough, Cook was pissed and left. Remind me of Cullen Jenkins situation.
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Cheesey
4 years ago
Zero, I also thought something was goofy with Cook.
But I sure wish it wouldn’t have ended the way it did.
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beast
4 years ago

Asking a loaded question says more about the one asking, and the one asked.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

Except that wasn't a loaded question, I was serious wondering and if someone said yes (and we could find proof), my inner football need would be so darn excited...

As I said, I looked hard for it, and only could find VT Tech that had done it over the long term if every snap for multiple games (and they did it for years), but I haven't seen anywhere else even attempt it other than short term.

I believe because it creates system eras, in which another team in theory could easily take advantage of, though VA Tech wanted you to take those chances as they bet you couldn't complete them on their talented DBs, but I'm not sure that would work in the pros.

My point is if you have someone who is good at Man and someone who is good at Zone, there are options to utilize both.

Random thought ... When Jets had Darrelle Revis and locked him on someone, did they play zone or man? I am not saying Hayward or Shields were Revis level, just using an example that I think most can be familiar with.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

I get your point, and really like and enjoy the out of the box thinking, but while there are options, considering that an extremely extremely rare option, I don't think the coaches believe it's a smart option for some reason.

Revis and Cromartie basically always locked up in man coverage, they weren't zone guys at all...

Of course, by definition, locking someone up on a WR is man coverage, because you stick with them in man coverage, you stick with your zone in zone coverage... which is why mixing the two clash against each other when used at the same time.


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beast
4 years ago


Jared Cook ... that guy I would have liked to have retained. Something fishy happened there. I read reports the Packers offered something similar to Raiders and because the Packers didn't offer it fast enough, Cook was pissed and left. Remind me of Cullen Jenkins situation.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Cook, Jenkins and Jennings are rumored to all be cases of players/agents over valuing their free agency market... basically the players bet on themselves and loss (well Jennings might of been breaking even).

But Packers made their best offer to Cook and the agent held out trying to an even bigger contract, and Packers got their highest rated FA TE to sign for slighty higher deal than what Cook's group rejected... and Cook ended up taking a good bit less than he rejected with the Raiders.

Same thing with Jenkins, but that happened in season, and Jenkins was reported pissed with the low ball offer he received in season... turns out that low ball offer was more than anyone else would offer him come FA, and still pissed at the Packers he signed with the Eagles, who after they restricted his contact (or release him if he didn't), he earned less than the offer too.

Jennings reported turned down, I think 11 million per year... but based on Twitter from him and his family, they KNEW the Dolphins were going to sign him to a mega deal (Jennings 'sister was already semi publicly planning her trip to visit her brother in South Beach lol). because they REALLY needed a #1 WR, they had a lot of cap cash to spend and because Joe Philbin and Mike Sherman were head offensive guys with the Dolphins now...

One problem, GM had control and he preferred and got Mike Wallace instead...

Then Vikings got into the mix, and Packers offered him 10 million, Vikings offered less, but Jennings was upset at Packers, so they kept talking to the Vikings, and comparing the better Packers offer to them, and they ended up getting the Vikings to match the $10 million and Jennings signed with them.




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Zero2Cool
4 years ago
Sure is crazy how much the human element affects signing deals at times. I think we fans often times think it's 100% dollars.

If you're looking for some NFL game fix -- get the NFL Game Pass. It's free right now. You can watch any game you want dating back to 2012!
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Mucky Tundra (1h) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (7h) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (7h) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (7h) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (7h) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (7h) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (7h) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (16h) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (16h) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (17h) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (18h) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (18h) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (18h) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (19h) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (19h) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (19h) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (19h) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (19h) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (19h) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (19h) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (19h) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (19h) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (19h) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (19h) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (19h) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (19h) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (19h) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (19h) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (19h) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (19h) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (19h) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (19h) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (19h) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (19h) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (19h) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (19h) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (20h) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (20h) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (20h) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (20h) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
Mucky Tundra (20h) : And with a Pass Rush that might as well be on a milk cartoon and no Jaire
Martha Careful (20h) : I cant help but feel good about how well the Packers D played in Philly during the playoffs
Mucky Tundra (20h) : this game is over
Mucky Tundra (20h) : This might be the kill shot here
Mucky Tundra (20h) : oh that's such a bad penalty for KC after getting the 3rd down stop
TheKanataThrilla (20h) : Philly DL has come to play
TheKanataThrilla (20h) : Ceoper DeJean with the INT scored...bad memories of draft night
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