TheKanataThrilla
4 years ago

Hyde and Hayward.....just what I have said in the past. Letting good players go, and trying to fill those voids in the draft. Kids coming out of college rarely make a huge impact right away. Some not for several seasons. So you let known good guys leave for “best player available” hopes. Hopes that may never develop.
I know you can’t keep everyone. And I agree that better 1year early then 1 year late. But guys that are good and not over the hill, you need to hold onto if you want a shot at a championship.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



But Randall and Rollins both had decent rookie years which made losing Hayward and Hyde palatable. Hayward was injured quite a bit and Hyde was decent, but got big bucks by the Bills for what he provided to Green Bay. Unfortunately that was likely because he was not in the correct position.
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

Have you actually seen any team do that for an entire season? Or even 8 games?

Originally Posted by: beast 


Asking a loaded question says more about the one asking, and the one asked.

I know they it's a fairly common short term strategy to deal with certain players it certain teams, but I haven't seen (or if I did, didn't realize it) that any team has consistently done it the majority of multiple back to back to back games.

I believe the reason for that is because it can create even more problems with different half of the field working differently than the other, so just get the WRs to cross, and the guy in man wants to stay in man, and the guy in zone wants to stay in zone... so now you can two guys on one WR and a WR running free and wide open.

Originally Posted by: beast 



My point is if you have someone who is good at Man and someone who is good at Zone, there are options to utilize both.

Random thought ... When Jets had Darrelle Revis and locked him on someone, did they play zone or man? I am not saying Hayward or Shields were Revis level, just using an example that I think most can be familiar with.
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Zero2Cool
4 years ago

Hyde and Hayward.....just what I have said in the past. Letting good players go, and trying to fill those voids in the draft. Kids coming out of college rarely make a huge impact right away. Some not for several seasons. So you let known good guys leave for “best player available” hopes. Hopes that may never develop.
I know you can’t keep everyone. And I agree that better 1year early then 1 year late. But guys that are good and not over the hill, you need to hold onto if you want a shot at a championship.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



The (speculating based on actions taken) belief was they had reached their ceiling with the Packers. And they drafted (more speculating) best player available and that made Hyde and Hayward expendable. If you have youth coming in that you perceive to have a higher ceiling than those who are commanding large contracts and have hit their ceiling, your decision is made for you.

I'm not at all upset about Hyde or Hayward. Hyde I thought was a great utility guy. Hayward I thought was over rated by us Packers fans.


Jared Cook ... that guy I would have liked to have retained. Something fishy happened there. I read reports the Packers offered something similar to Raiders and because the Packers didn't offer it fast enough, Cook was pissed and left. Remind me of Cullen Jenkins situation.
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Cheesey
4 years ago
Zero, I also thought something was goofy with Cook.
But I sure wish it wouldn’t have ended the way it did.
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beast
4 years ago

Asking a loaded question says more about the one asking, and the one asked.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

Except that wasn't a loaded question, I was serious wondering and if someone said yes (and we could find proof), my inner football need would be so darn excited...

As I said, I looked hard for it, and only could find VT Tech that had done it over the long term if every snap for multiple games (and they did it for years), but I haven't seen anywhere else even attempt it other than short term.

I believe because it creates system eras, in which another team in theory could easily take advantage of, though VA Tech wanted you to take those chances as they bet you couldn't complete them on their talented DBs, but I'm not sure that would work in the pros.

My point is if you have someone who is good at Man and someone who is good at Zone, there are options to utilize both.

Random thought ... When Jets had Darrelle Revis and locked him on someone, did they play zone or man? I am not saying Hayward or Shields were Revis level, just using an example that I think most can be familiar with.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

I get your point, and really like and enjoy the out of the box thinking, but while there are options, considering that an extremely extremely rare option, I don't think the coaches believe it's a smart option for some reason.

Revis and Cromartie basically always locked up in man coverage, they weren't zone guys at all...

Of course, by definition, locking someone up on a WR is man coverage, because you stick with them in man coverage, you stick with your zone in zone coverage... which is why mixing the two clash against each other when used at the same time.


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beast
4 years ago


Jared Cook ... that guy I would have liked to have retained. Something fishy happened there. I read reports the Packers offered something similar to Raiders and because the Packers didn't offer it fast enough, Cook was pissed and left. Remind me of Cullen Jenkins situation.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Cook, Jenkins and Jennings are rumored to all be cases of players/agents over valuing their free agency market... basically the players bet on themselves and loss (well Jennings might of been breaking even).

But Packers made their best offer to Cook and the agent held out trying to an even bigger contract, and Packers got their highest rated FA TE to sign for slighty higher deal than what Cook's group rejected... and Cook ended up taking a good bit less than he rejected with the Raiders.

Same thing with Jenkins, but that happened in season, and Jenkins was reported pissed with the low ball offer he received in season... turns out that low ball offer was more than anyone else would offer him come FA, and still pissed at the Packers he signed with the Eagles, who after they restricted his contact (or release him if he didn't), he earned less than the offer too.

Jennings reported turned down, I think 11 million per year... but based on Twitter from him and his family, they KNEW the Dolphins were going to sign him to a mega deal (Jennings 'sister was already semi publicly planning her trip to visit her brother in South Beach lol). because they REALLY needed a #1 WR, they had a lot of cap cash to spend and because Joe Philbin and Mike Sherman were head offensive guys with the Dolphins now...

One problem, GM had control and he preferred and got Mike Wallace instead...

Then Vikings got into the mix, and Packers offered him 10 million, Vikings offered less, but Jennings was upset at Packers, so they kept talking to the Vikings, and comparing the better Packers offer to them, and they ended up getting the Vikings to match the $10 million and Jennings signed with them.




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Zero2Cool
4 years ago
Sure is crazy how much the human element affects signing deals at times. I think we fans often times think it's 100% dollars.

If you're looking for some NFL game fix -- get the NFL Game Pass. It's free right now. You can watch any game you want dating back to 2012!
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Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (15m) : Johnson didn't make it until 2020. Ring 2023. 🤷 Personally, he should have been in years prior to Hall.
Zero2Cool (15m) : HUMP DAY
beast (28m) : Guys that have a good shot at making the NFL Hall of Fame usually get into their teams pretty fast
beast (28m) : Yeah, but is Kampman and the others in the NFL Hall of Fame?
Zero2Cool (33m) : Johnson was Hall of Fame, 2020. Should haev been in Ring a year later, not three years.
Zero2Cool (35m) : I could be wrong there though
Zero2Cool (35m) : Guys like Kampman, Tim Harris, Al Harris, etc all over 15 years. Hall of Fame is 5 year wait
Zero2Cool (37m) : I guess I see players in Packers Hall come way later
beast (40m) : Yeah, usually teams hall of fames are a much lower bar than the NFL
Zero2Cool (41m) : is it uncommon for Hall before Ring?
Zero2Cool (1h) : S Xavier McKinney named first-team All-Pro by NFLPA
beast (2h) : I missed it, sorry, but he got into the NFL Hall of Fame years before that
Zero2Cool (2h) : Jones took his sweet ole time!
Zero2Cool (2h) : Yeah, he's in the ring of honor, just saw video and his name is up there
Zero2Cool (2h) : Didn't they have a thing in 2023 for Jimmy's ring of honor? I swear I saw it
beast (3h) : Though if they're legitimately trying to re-sign MM, then it makes sense.
beast (3h) : Jerry Jones still hasn't put Jimmy Johnson in the Ring of Honor, but he's in the NFL's Hall of Fame, Jones is petty
Mucky Tundra (14h) : Unless the Cowboys are planning an extension, seems kinda petty
beast (16h) : Cowboys denied Bears request
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : From what I'm reading, MM is under contract through the 14th of January; after that he's free game
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : McCarthy let go or not extended??
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Chicago Bears have asked the Dallas Cowboys permission to interview Mike McCarthy for head coaching vacancy
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : The winners page that is
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : I was not hoping for that. It messes up the page lol
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats beast on 2024 !
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats porky on winning 2023 pick'em! (oops sorry)
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : Packers have $60M+ of 2025 cap space on paper TODAY.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Missed FG into a Lions TD; that'll do pig, that'll do
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : That might be it for the Vikings
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Oh so the refs do know what intentional grounding is
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : what the hell was that Goff?! Not much pressure and he just air mails it to Harrison
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : They really need to to get rid of the auto first down for illegal contact
Martha Careful (6-Jan) : watching the Vikings and Lions it's understandable why they swept the Packers. So much better product
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Even when GB got pressure he was throwing darts; vs no pressure on that last pass he just air mails an open guy
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : didn't have guys in his face ... pressure makes difference
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Where was this Darnold vs GB?
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : BALL DON'T LIE
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : how was that not a safety? Goff throws it at an offensive lineman
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Zero, I thought that was a given! ;)
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Zero I looked through earlier and noticed the same thing. Bonkers year. I just wonder if beast put any money on games
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : I'm hoping for BLOODBATH. Pummel one another.
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : 8 people in pick'em would have won any year with their total lol
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : I'm rooting for the Lions to lose.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : God help me but I'm rooting for the Vikings to...Vikings to...Christ I can't say it
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : 4 td for Rodgers
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : Chiefs got shutout
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : Rodgers passes for 3rd TD. might be last game of an amazing career
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