Cheesey
6 years ago
To me , on saying “under God” bothers you, then don’t say that part of the pledge.
Heck, if you don’t believe in God, why should it bother you at all?
And the national anthem? When I was given the honor of singing it at the Milwaukee Brewers game in 2010, I sang it as it is supposed to be sung. I didn’t see it as a chance to “show off” my musical talents. As was stated already, some people use it to try to show off. That’s not the way it was intended. My version is still on YouTube if you want to see it. Just put in “Alan Smith national anthem” on YouTube. I’ll tell you, it was one of the most humbling things I have ever done.
The only thing that would be better would be if I got to sing it at Lambeau Field!
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Zero2Cool
6 years ago

To me , on saying “under God” bothers you, then don’t say that part of the pledge.
Heck, if you don’t believe in God, why should it bother you at all?

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I'm more agnostic than anything and I never have, nor do I now have an issue saying the full pledge. That said, again, agnostic and not of a differing religion with devout followers and I think it's inconsiderate to ignore that there are other religions that hold different beliefs.

I'm all for those who have a religious belief, but this constant trying to force theirs on everyone is wrong. Religion is not for everyone and if we can't accept that, then what's that say about us?






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KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
6 years ago
the irony of the discussion is that the real debate within the country is not on God, per se, but about values...where does one start.
Also “liberty and justice for all” is a linchpin. We do not have equal application of the law in the country. Instead we have selective prosecution as well as weaponization of the government for polical reasons...aka tyranny
In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
Zero2Cool
6 years ago

the irony of the discussion is that the real debate within the country is not on God, per se, but about values...where does one start.
Also “liberty and justice for all” is a linchpin. We do not have equal application of the law in the country. Instead we have selective prosecution as well as weaponization of the government for polical reasons...aka tyranny

Originally Posted by: KRK 



Someone mentioned the Pledge of Allegiance. I spoke my opinion on it.

Regarding the topic, I've stated my stance on it. People are hypocrites. They are sitting on their couch during the anthem whining about players raising a fist or taking a knee and subjectively calling it a slight against the Country.

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Cheesey
6 years ago
It seems lately that all religions other then Christianity are “respected”.
I don’t think the pledge or having “in God we trust” on our money is forcing religion on anyone.
You spend the money...do those words affect you at all? Or the pledge, if you don’t like “under God” don’t say it.
Problem solved.
The real reason for trying to have God as our inspiration was that this was the only one with absolutes. The 10 commandments are just that, not the “10 suggestions”. As we got away from godly beliefs, we have allowed in things such as human life being disposable if you don’t want it.
Other moral problems have caused a decline in our society.
And I don’t see it getting better anytime soon, unless America wakes up and sees itself for what it is.
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Barfarn
6 years ago

Clearly some of us are familiar with the history of the Declaration and Constitution...some just read web blog talking points.
You can always tell a liberal by the debating technique...attack the person who supposedly represents the idea, not the ideas or ideals themselves.
Which elements of Judaeo-Christian's values do you specifically dislike?
...

And yes, as we see in the headlines every day, many Evangelical and other Church leaders are deeply flawed...which is why for many of use we read the Bible to see what was originally intended. For the same reason, I like to read the Federalist Papers and other historical documents to see what was originally intended.

...
I suggest you turn off PMSNBC and actually read the Constitution and the Federalist Papers to get an understanding by what was intended, and not intended, in the Constitution Drafting.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



Damn, I guess I hit a nerve 😂. You should ask yourself, why?

My post extolled Christian values. You asked how Christians should vote and I simply used the Bible to so advise. If there was an argument it was that Christians support Biblical axioms and don’t support amoral conduct or give Koch Bros rhetoric more credence than the Bible. The Federalist Papers are MEANINGLESS unless read in the context of the government the writers implemented, other things they wrote and how they lived.

The Constitution’s Drafters were white, male, RICH, “Christians” or "Deists," who formed a government expressly to serve THEMSELVES; to perpetuate their interests and to preserve their cast. Jesus said you measure a man by his deeds not by his words. These clowns spoke so eloquently of liberty, freedom and equality; but owned slaves and practiced contempt toward anyone not White, Male or “Christian.” Notwithstanding what they said, the Drafters had contempt for Christian values. And of course, their greed killed their desire to redistribute of wealth.

The Drafters also possessed utter contempt for the People; the mere mention of democracy caused spinal shivers. But, they needed those peasants to man their fields, their industrial endeavors and/or to hold muskets should the British try to reclaim their colony. The People got a bone, the peasants could vote and peacefully bitch. The Drafters knew the People couldn’t eff things up if their choice was limited to the Adams-Madison-Jefferson-Bush-Clinton types. In 1800 they discovered a system flaw and adopted the electoral college in 1804 just in case a man of the People somehow received more votes than one of the oligarchical robberbarons of the day.

These “under god” chrsitian men of liberty and freedom paid Napoleon, 7 games of Rodgers’ pay, to double the size of the US [La. Purchase]. But, instead of compensating their new red and brown citizens that inhabited the land; they murdered and marched them off to arid concentration camps. Negroes were first enslaved; then Jim Crowed. Women were total 2nd class or worse and foreigners were relegated effectively to slave labor. Anything these duplicitous jerks wrote must be taken with a grain of salt.

If you were a non-elite White; you were born and died in your cast; there was no middle class. Economic and social advancement simply did not occur with any appreciably greater frequency than any other worldly society past or present. The American Dream was not a reality, it was pure myth. The few that were able to claw their way up were nouveau riche and weren’t accepted until a generation or 2 passed. The typical white dude was born to a peasant and began working at 8-12. As they got older their work week increased to 10-16 hrs /day 6-7 days/ week, for pay that barely allowed one to shelter, feed and cloth his family. If a White woman, you had better have a man. There was no savings, if this white dude got sick, old, died or injured on the job; the family died; lived like ferule street dogs or was supported by other family. The white dude’s kids then repeated the lives of their parents.

This is the society that our “Christian” forefathers “under God” conceived of and then actually implemented. How does a Christian claim to aspire to this? A moral man sees this as an example of what to AVOID. If this nation was formed under God, then, sorry, he’s just a dick. But, I see the pervasive evil ugliness from 1776 until the FDR Era as growing out of the machinations of evil/rich severely flawed bigoted misogynistic faux-christian evil bastard propagandist men; not God. And we know what Jesus said about the greedy and rich.

The American Dream hit its peak in the 60’s and 70’s and maybe 80’s. A substantial middle class was formed; finally a parent could legitimately dream of their kids having a better life. One could rise out of poverty to elite in less than a generation and at an unprecedented level known in the history of the world. But, the robberbarons didn’t just decide to do this. Thousands of men and women sacrificed life, limb [at Paint Creek, Ludlow, Blair Mountain, Harlan Co., Haymarket, etc.] and deportation to bring about a 40 hr work week that paid a living wage. THIS, is when the American Dream was transformed from myth to reality and, you sir, are taking this for granted and spitting in the face of our Nation’s true Christian heroes [Debs, Goldman, Hill, Ma Jones, etc]. Kids started going to school rather than working in coal mines and sweat shops; the elderly began to live with dignity and didn’t financially drain their families. Racism eased. Disgusting waterways, land and air was cleaned up, infirming and/or killed fewer. Mortality skyrocketed and safety nets formed should one lose the physical ability to be productive or suffer short term unemployment, etc, etc, etc?

America has EVOLVED and now you and the Kochs want to go back to a time when America was great [for the white male oligarchs and robberbarons] again; a time when it was lawful to kill and enslave all those that don’t possess a pecker or look like us and dump their toxins in the commons. My understanding of the Bible conflicts with this desire. Jesus said you cannot serve the Kochs and God [(Clay) Matthew(s) 6:24]! I can respect any choice you make; but Ya cant be both, ya gotta make a choice!
DarkaneRules
6 years ago
To me the idea of a political ideology being pro-Christian potentially presumes the other ideology to be anti-Christian. This adds another layer to the culture and class wars of politics, which is terrifying to me.

My fear is that we are taking a "means to an end" approach, even if it means following people who are breaking commandments in plain view, with no remorse whatsoever.

From an economical standpoint, I don't know about y'all, but I've not noticed the positive effects of these tax cuts from the middle class perspective. It's almost like they weren't meant for me/us. Meanwhile, the national debt continues to soar and all those who were screaming about it during the previous administration are silent. Now debt is a good thing. Funny how that works.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
6 years ago
Barfan said

The Constitution’s Drafters were white, male, RICH, “Christians” or "Deists," who formed a government expressly to serve THEMSELVES; to perpetuate their interests and to preserve their cast. Jesus said you measure a man by his deeds not by his words. These clowns spoke so eloquently of liberty, freedom and equality; but owned slaves and practiced contempt toward anyone not White, Male or “Christian.” Notwithstanding what they said, the Drafters had contempt for Christian values. And of course, their greed killed their desire to redistribute of wealth.

This view is truly delusional. Most did not own slaves. And they all felt that society, without strong moral underpinnings, would collapse.

Again, you fall into the libtard practice of attacking people, instead of debating concepts.
Exactly which concepts of our constitutional republic do you disagree with, and why.
By the way, like you, I think the Koch Brothers are all about big business at the expense of the little guy as well...I am not a fan. But I am also not a socialst. I am for extremely limited government...which means I want the goverment, you, and the thought police out of my wallet, business, bedroom, church, and gunsafe with my AR-15’s, hand guns, and ammo.

GO PACK GO

In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
nerdmann
6 years ago
Founders cribbed a large portion of the founding documents from the Iriquois iirc.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Zero2Cool
6 years ago
I didn't read the other posts because well I can't stand the political labeling. It's absolutely ignorant to throw someone in a bucket just because of one thing. There's no black and white with that. You can have some views that fit one, some views that fit another. To be labeled into one because of a particular view is absolutely moronic.



This view is truly delusional. Most did not own slaves. And they all felt that society, without strong moral underpinnings, would collapse.

Again, you fall into the libtard practice of attacking people, instead of debating concepts.
Exactly which concepts of our constitutional republic do you disagree with, and why.



And here we have someone saying someone is attacking people, while using a label and shortly before saying their view is 'truly delusional'.

I hate politics and everything related to it ... only because people have no idea how to talk about the subject.

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dfosterf (23h) : The white background beta was hard to read, especially the quotes
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dfosterf (23h) : *Friday*
dfosterf (23h) : 100 million would be 539 million as of Fridsy
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packerfanoutwest (23h) : beer and brats woke? say whom?
beast (27-Jul) : I don't want to get into politics, but how is, beers and brats considered to be "woke"? Food is food...
beast (27-Jul) : That being said, I'm not saying all 100% should be that way, but not surprised if majority are Wisconsin based
beast (27-Jul) : And if everyone has heard of them, then it it probably has less growth potential and less community based
beast (27-Jul) : Well isn't the investing person supposed to invest the money?
dfosterf (27-Jul) : I swear if I were to discover that one of them has invented a virtue signalling transmitter I will not be surprised, lol
dfosterf (27-Jul) : 39 companies so far that I bet no one has ever heard of.
dfosterf (27-Jul) : -Not saying woke, but should- borderline philanthopist venture capital excercise
dfosterf (27-Jul) : Well for one, they are pouring resources into Title Town Tech. Investing beer, brat, hot dog, ticket money into what is pretty much...
beast (27-Jul) : Wow, 95% drop in investment revenue? Would be interesting to hear the details of why...
dfosterf (25-Jul) : It's my one day deal complaint dept. on shareholder meeting day
dfosterf (25-Jul) : Probably a homer access credential intimidation kinda thing
dfosterf (25-Jul) : Meathead "journalists" skip this, concentrating on operational revenue when convenient. They switch when net revenue is more favorable.
dfosterf (25-Jul) : Resulting in an actual drop of net revenue of 12.5%. She is from Minnesota. Just sayin'
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Mucky Tundra (25-Jul) : In your face, HBO!
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Mucky Tundra (25-Jul) : *years
Mucky Tundra (25-Jul) : @mattschneidman Mark Murphy says he anticipates “many Packers games” being played in Germany, Ireland and/or the U.K. over the next 5-10 yea
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dfosterf (25-Jul) : Maybe a low flying drone
dfosterf (25-Jul) : Did Savion Williams run into a goalpost or something?
Mucky Tundra (25-Jul) : also, no bueno when a guy starts getting concussions right off the bat in his career
Zero2Cool (25-Jul) : Concussion is worse. Banks probably vet off day via back booboo claim
Mucky Tundra (25-Jul) : @AndyHermanNFL Jordy Nelson out at camp today. No word if he’s in play for one of the two open roster spots ; )
dfosterf (25-Jul) : Is that better or worse than Banks bad back?
Zero2Cool (25-Jul) : Savion concussion ... not good.
packerfanoutwest (24-Jul) : Aaron Rodgers’s first pass of first team period was picked off
Mucky Tundra (24-Jul) : tbh I didn't hear of his passing
Zero2Cool (24-Jul) : Cosby Show. Malcom Jamal Warner I think is real name
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