Clearly some of us are familiar with the history of the Declaration and Constitution...some just read web blog talking points.
You can always tell a liberal by the debating technique...attack the person who supposedly represents the idea, not the ideas or ideals themselves.
Which elements of Judaeo-Christian's values do you specifically dislike?
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And yes, as we see in the headlines every day, many Evangelical and other Church leaders are deeply flawed...which is why for many of use we read the Bible to see what was originally intended. For the same reason, I like to read the Federalist Papers and other historical documents to see what was originally intended.
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I suggest you turn off PMSNBC and actually read the Constitution and the Federalist Papers to get an understanding by what was intended, and not intended, in the Constitution Drafting.
Originally Posted by: KRK
Damn, I guess I hit a nerve 😂. You should ask yourself, why?
My post extolled Christian values. You asked how Christians should vote and I simply used the Bible to so advise. If there was an argument it was that Christians support Biblical axioms and don’t support amoral conduct or give Koch Bros rhetoric more credence than the Bible. The Federalist Papers are MEANINGLESS unless read in the context of the government the writers implemented, other things they wrote and how they lived.
The Constitution’s Drafters were white, male, RICH, “Christians” or "Deists," who formed a government expressly to serve THEMSELVES; to perpetuate their interests and to preserve their cast. Jesus said you measure a man by his deeds not by his words. These clowns spoke so eloquently of liberty, freedom and equality; but owned slaves and practiced contempt toward anyone not White, Male or “Christian.” Notwithstanding what they said, the Drafters had contempt for Christian values. And of course, their greed killed their desire to redistribute of wealth.
The Drafters also possessed utter contempt for the People; the mere mention of democracy caused spinal shivers. But, they needed those peasants to man their fields, their industrial endeavors and/or to hold muskets should the British try to reclaim their colony. The People got a bone, the peasants could vote and peacefully bitch. The Drafters knew the People couldn’t eff things up if their choice was limited to the Adams-Madison-Jefferson-Bush-Clinton types. In 1800 they discovered a system flaw and adopted the electoral college in 1804 just in case a man of the People somehow received more votes than one of the oligarchical robberbarons of the day.
These “under god” chrsitian men of liberty and freedom paid Napoleon, 7 games of Rodgers’ pay, to double the size of the US [La. Purchase]. But, instead of compensating their new red and brown citizens that inhabited the land; they murdered and marched them off to arid concentration camps. Negroes were first enslaved; then Jim Crowed. Women were total 2nd class or worse and foreigners were relegated effectively to slave labor. Anything these duplicitous jerks wrote must be taken with a grain of salt.
If you were a non-elite White; you were born and died in your cast; there was no middle class. Economic and social advancement simply did not occur with any appreciably greater frequency than any other worldly society past or present. The American Dream was not a reality, it was pure myth. The few that were able to claw their way up were nouveau riche and weren’t accepted until a generation or 2 passed. The typical white dude was born to a peasant and began working at 8-12. As they got older their work week increased to 10-16 hrs /day 6-7 days/ week, for pay that barely allowed one to shelter, feed and cloth his family. If a White woman, you had better have a man. There was no savings, if this white dude got sick, old, died or injured on the job; the family died; lived like ferule street dogs or was supported by other family. The white dude’s kids then repeated the lives of their parents.
This is the society that our “Christian” forefathers “under God” conceived of and then actually implemented. How does a Christian claim to aspire to this? A moral man sees this as an example of what to AVOID. If this nation was formed under God, then, sorry, he’s just a dick. But, I see the pervasive evil ugliness from 1776 until the FDR Era as growing out of the machinations of evil/rich severely flawed bigoted misogynistic faux-christian evil bastard propagandist men; not God. And we know what Jesus said about the greedy and rich.
The American Dream hit its peak in the 60’s and 70’s and maybe 80’s. A substantial middle class was formed; finally a parent could legitimately dream of their kids having a better life. One could rise out of poverty to elite in less than a generation and at an unprecedented level known in the history of the world. But, the robberbarons didn’t just decide to do this. Thousands of men and women sacrificed life, limb [at Paint Creek, Ludlow, Blair Mountain, Harlan Co., Haymarket, etc.] and deportation to bring about a 40 hr work week that paid a living wage. THIS, is when the American Dream was transformed from myth to reality and, you sir, are taking this for granted and spitting in the face of our Nation’s true Christian heroes [Debs, Goldman, Hill, Ma Jones, etc]. Kids started going to school rather than working in coal mines and sweat shops; the elderly began to live with dignity and didn’t financially drain their families. Racism eased. Disgusting waterways, land and air was cleaned up, infirming and/or killed fewer. Mortality skyrocketed and safety nets formed should one lose the physical ability to be productive or suffer short term unemployment, etc, etc, etc?
America has EVOLVED and now you and the Kochs want to go back to a time when America was great [for the white male oligarchs and robberbarons] again; a time when it was lawful to kill and enslave all those that don’t possess a pecker or look like us and dump their toxins in the commons. My understanding of the Bible conflicts with this desire. Jesus said you cannot serve the Kochs and God [(Clay) Matthew(s) 6:24]! I can respect any choice you make; but Ya cant be both, ya gotta make a choice!