wpr
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7 years ago

One APC writer thinks that the Packers are actually not and should focus on 2018 and beyond. A few weeks ago, APC’s Paul Noonan wrote a very nice article explaining why the Packers aren’t a one man show at QB .
While I mostly agree with his sentiment, I think the one place the Packers are good at for the time being is the offensive skill positions. However, here is my (probably hot) take on this team right now:
It’s bad.
Now hear me out for a second before the pitchforks and broken beer bottles come for my head. I have talked with fellow smart person, Justis Mosqueda (a Twitter must-follow for all Packer fans @Jumosq), and we both feel as though there may not be another team/roster in the league that would benefit from a bad season than the Green and Gold.
This feeling has had time to marinate. Let me take you back to a time not so long ago; the Packers are 4-6, and Aaron Godgers utters the famous, “I think we can run the table” comment that sparked an 8 game winning streak. That stretch eventually ended in a butt-whipping in Atlanta that we all had to endure. Last year when the team sat at 4-6, I had these same thoughts, I just didn’t share them. They weren’t ready, but now they are. The Packers aren’t what we think/thought they are/were.
Sitting at 4-6 last season, the Packers were beat-up and under-manned. Luckily, they have a good head coach in Mike McCarthy and the best quarterback in NFL history. Rodgers went hero-ball and won 8 straight games. Now, that was cool, and I feel awful taking winning for granted, because there are a lot of NFL franchises who would kill for 8 game winning streaks or a trip to their conference championship game. HOWEVER, the team was 4-6 for a reason.
That results in a team that should have been picking somewhere from 14-17 picking 29th instead. Then — in a good move, in my opinion — they traded down to 33, adding the 108th pick. Here’s what could have been:
The Eagles  picked Derek Barnett  14th, the Colts  picked Malik Hooker  15th, the Ravens  picked Marlon Humphrey  16th, and the Redskins  picked Jonathan Allen  at 17. All four of these players have or did look good this season, Barnett and Allen in particular. The Browns  traded up to 29 for David Njoku. The Steelers  took T.J. Watt  at 30 (I’m still taking this L), and the 49ers  took Reuben Foster  at 31 with Ryan Ramczyk  following him at 32.
I like Kevin King , and he’s flashed this season, but the difference in a mid 1st round pick’s talent to the 33rd can be pretty significant. This isn’t a knock on King, but is intended to show what type of talent went before the Packers picked. This is more of a ”I wish we would have finished 6-10/7-9 last year” discussion than an “anti-Kevin King” rant.
Hypothetically, say the Packers picked 16th. There, perhaps they take edge rusher Charles Harris. Then their 2nd round pick is at 48 instead of 61. Running back Joe Mixon  was the 48th pick of the draft.
I’m not here to contest what draft picks are worth, nor to dispute the argument that “there really isn’t much of a difference between the 18th pick and the 29th/33rd because there are busts at both spots.” If that were the case, there would be no benefit picking #1 because there have been busts there too. What I’m saying is that there is generally a higher level of talent available higher in the draft, thus, that’s why they are picked there.
I will probably have another piece closer to the end of the season when the offseason picture is clearer (though we just had a player basically announce his retirement this weekend ). Furthermore, the argument here will probably piss a lot of people off because it’s not the narrative that most fans want to hear. But y’all heard it here, first. The Packers aren’t good. They are an average to below-average team with a transcendent quarterback.
It would be wise of them, in this season where winning a Super Bowl isn’t plausible, to scrap the season. Granted, it’s much easier for me to say that without a stake in the team or my livelihood on the line, but be good or be bad and don’t be in the middle. The Packers have a chance to be in a better position to help this team immediately for next season, as getting Rodgers back healthy gains them probably somewhere around 5 wins. They were 4-1 with Rodgers, and they can do it again. But next time, they can have better players.
Carry on.

Continue Reading @ Owen Riese 

Owen Riese wrote:



Kind of a weak narrative on his part. The players they have will play. Guys get hurt going half/ 3/4 speed in a full speed situation.
The guys will play to the best of their abilities such as they are. The only way to throw games is to dump to bench the better players. Neither will happen. Cream rises crap settles. Without Rodgers they will sink in the standings unless Hundley shows more than he has. They don't have to go out of their way and throw games to fail.
UserPostedImage
uffda udfa
7 years ago
No. We have a poor history up high in the draft under this regime. Moving up a few slots just means committing more rookie deal money to a likely bust or pedestrian player like 5th overall AJ Hawk.

If tanking causes regime change then 100% yes. It shouldn't take that to cause change but that's how Ted got rid of Sherman by tanking. Be poetic to see Ted and Mike get boot under unintended tank.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


nerdmann
7 years ago
It ain't exactly over yet.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
7 years ago

For a long term perspective, yes tanking is probably best, which is why teams tank when they don't think it's going to be a good current year, so they can set up for the future. Of course, that's not to say it's good for the people in charge nor the players as they may only have a limited time in those roles.

But yes getting to pick high in each round, might be more be more helpful then winning a few more picks at towards the end of each round.

Though at the end of the day, it all depends on the success of the selections. But in theory much higher selection choice should help with that.
UserPostedImage
PackFanWithTwins
7 years ago
Both winning and losing can become habit.

The only thing I might think about is giving young players more reps in games to get them experience
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
gotarace
7 years ago
Teach the young guys it's OK to lose and be a loser...I'm definitely against that. Every person at a professional level is there for a reason. They were the kids that were gifted and blessed with talent many of us will never understand. They have been winners their entire lives and instilling anything but a winning attitude is utter foolishness. Maybe Ted...MM and the entire coaching staff should earn their keep. It is hard to believe we can't scheme up an effective game plan because one player went down.
Let's quote Vince..."Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."
Smart As a Horse
Hung Like Einstein
TheKanataThrilla
7 years ago
Without Aaron I am not sure we have to try to tank. I do believe the reality of what he provides to this team is going to be evident over the next few weeks. I am not sure if Hundley will even win us 1 game. I just don't think he can put up the points to protect against our very pedestrian defense.
Cheesey
7 years ago

It ain't exactly over yet.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



That's TRUE!!!!

(We have to wait until after the game Monday to say it is!)😝
UserPostedImage
sschind
7 years ago

Both winning and losing can become habit.

The only thing I might think about is giving young players more reps in games to get them experience

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



I agree with the premise that in general picking in the middle of each round is going to give you better talent than picking at the end or at the very least it gives you more choices. On the other hand I would be opposed to losing on purpose just to accomplish this. I understand why some fans might think that losing on purpose is the best chance to obtain more talent, I just disagree with it. Not so much the getting better talent part but the losing on purpose part. Thus the trick becomes how to tank without giving the appearance of tanking.

Your idea of playing the young guys to give them more experience is legit, especially if several more losses make a playoff run unlikely (not going to get into the whole getting to the playoffs is all some fans care about thing) Is this tanking? In my opinion tanking is not doing everything in your power to win so yeah, if playing Geronimo Allison instead of Davante Adams because you want to give GA more reps that is a part of tanking. On the other hand if the Packers have decided to move on from DA next year giving his potential replacement more reps makes some sense. Please note I am just using these two guys as an example, I am not suggesting anything at all regarding the Packers, GA and DA.

Saving banged up guys may also be a legit concern. You have a critical part of your defense and he is battling a lingering relatively minor injury but he can still play do you bench him for the last few games if the playoffs are out of reach? If its possible that playing may elevate the injury to something potentially more serious then yeah it is a legit tactic.

Teams tank all the time. A team with home filed locked up benches their starters for the last two games is tanking. Its not tanking for the reason we usually think of tanking, namely to get a better draft pick to help your future, but it is pretty much giving up a game or two to ensure that your more immediate future stays rosy and bright by protecting your stars.

So to answer the OP's direct question Would tanking the rest of 2017 be in the best long term interest my answer would be maybe, leaning towards probably. However, as others have pointed out not trying to win is not a mentality I want to see promoted for that end (better draft pick) Play some young guys if that's what you think is needed, bench some injured players if it will help them in the long run but please, if you are going to tank at least try to make it look like you are not tanking.
yooperfan
7 years ago
Fire Ted Thompson and go from there.
Except for Aaron Rodgers his first round picks have been horrible.
Some can’t be busted yet, but for the most part?????
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Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
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