Announcement NEED YOUR TESTING HELP! Please bounce around PackerPeople.com using your same PackersHome login/password and let me know if it's good, bad, needs fixed, etc ... I wanna get some decent testing before going live.
beast
7 years ago
You have to make up examples and distract from the issue because the Elliott play in question doesn't fit your narrative.

Everyone else can see the Refs did NOT screw the Packers on that play, as they followed the rule book on that play.

As previously shown the non-reply forward progress rule clearly does not apply in this case as this is a ball spot.
UserPostedImage
nerdmann
7 years ago
He extended the ball, then HE PULLED IT BACK, then he was down.

Zeke knew that if he kept it extended, it would be knocked out of his hand. So he had to PULL IT BACK. The pile didn't push his arm back, he did.

The main thing is, this team DID NOT GIVE UP. They still fought back and found a way to win. That was a GREAT play fake by Dak to score. But our QB is pretty good too.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
PackFanWithTwins
7 years ago

You say the spot "can always be challenged." Ignoring those challenges expressly disallowed by rule, this is simply not true. To prove this argument false, one example has to be provided.

You have one example, here's another:

3rd and 1 at the 5. RB gets stood up at 5, the whistle blows. The RB, with legs churning, at the very instant the D relax their grip, runs forward past 1st down. The coach throws challenge flag and he has video evidence to prove that his RB’s most advanced progress was in EZ.

Anyone, tell me what the refs will do? If you conclude they'll proceed with the challenge; then tell me what video evidence they can look at under the hood that can change or confirm the call on the field.

Your so close to the forest you cant see the trees. The purpose of "replay" is to search for video evidence that might cause the change of a ruling on the field. If the video evidence can do nothing to affect the decision on the field: the challenge will not be allowed, the coach wont lose a TO, they'll hand the flag back to him, saying that we blew whistle on Forward progress at 5, play stopped, this was a judgement decisions that cant be reviewed. This happens a few dozen times per year.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



You don't provide enough information. You say the RB get stood up at the 5, but you don't mention where the ball is. Where the RB is doesn't matter.

The play before the Zeke run was also a forward progress call. The officials spotted the ball for a first down based on where they thought the ball was when the receiver was hit stopping his forward progress. McCarthy challenged the spot of the ball. Under the replay the officials saw that the ball was on the receivers left side when he was contacted by the defense making the ball short of the Line to Gain. The Zeke play is the exact same situation, officials spotted the ball short based on where they believed the ball was when Zeke's forward progress stopped. Under Replay this time they saw that Zeke had reached further.

They got both the challenges correct.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Zero2Cool
7 years ago
I need Cliff notes please. I want to jump in and rules you all.
UserPostedImage
7 years ago
The spot can be reviewed, but I think they got the call wrong because it wasn't a GL situation so crossing the plane doesn't matter. What matters is where the ball was when the refs determined the runner's forward momentum was stopped by defenders. Since you can't tell on the replay when the whistle blew, you can't overturn the call on the field.

It's entirely possible that the refs reviewed it like a GL situation by mistake.
Cheesey
7 years ago
Let's face it....Jerry Jones paid off the refs to make calls like that! I'm surprised the refs didn't call it a touchdown, that he R-E-A-C-Hed close enough to the goal line from there!😝 😂 🤣
UserPostedImage
PackFanWithTwins
7 years ago

The spot can be reviewed, but I think they got the call wrong because it wasn't a GL situation so crossing the plane doesn't matter. What matters is where the ball was when the refs determined the runner's forward momentum was stopped by defenders. Since you can't tell on the replay when the whistle blew, you can't overturn the call on the field.

It's entirely possible that the refs reviewed it like a GL situation by mistake.

Originally Posted by: TedThompsonsShades 



An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:

(b) when a runner is held or otherwise restrained so that his forward progress ends;

The whistle just stops the play/clock.

The ball gets spotted at that furthest point where the runners momentum advanced the ball to. I can see the argument that Zeke pulled the ball back himself so that was his own momentum. But since he was being contracted by defenders officials are not going to make a determination of what backwards movement is caused by being pushed and which is caused by him pulling the ball back to tuck it away.

Where this would become tricky is say Zeke reached out with the ball like he did (19 yard line) and pulled it back the same then got pushed back to say the 21, regained his feet and moved forward again back to the 20. In that case the ball would be spotted at the 20. The ball always goes to the most forward spot even if Zeke would have been pushed back 10 yards before the whistle blew.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
7 years ago

An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:

(b) when a runner is held or otherwise restrained so that his forward progress ends;

The whistle just stops the play/clock.

The ball gets spotted at that furthest point where the runners momentum advanced the ball to. I can see the argument that Zeke pulled the ball back himself so that was his own momentum. But since he was being contracted by defenders officials are not going to make a determination of what backwards movement is caused by being pushed and which is caused by him pulling the ball back to tuck it away.

Where this would become tricky is say Zeke reached out with the ball like he did (19 yard line) and pulled it back the same then got pushed back to say the 21, regained his feet and moved forward again back to the 20. In that case the ball would be spotted at the 20. The ball always goes to the most forward spot even if Zeke would have been pushed back 10 yards before the whistle blew.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



It seems you’re trying to decide what happened and trying to do justice to that. But that is not how review works by rule.

Rule 15 Art. 3 says, “A decision will be reversed only when there is clear and obvious visual evidence available that warrants the change.”

The review analysis must come from the perspective that the play stands UNLESS “clear and obvious visual evidence” exists to reverse.

“Forward progress” is a term of art with a specific definition and it absolutely does not necessarily mean the most forward field position a player achieved on a play. Forward progress is the point on the field Elliot achieved under his own momentum before an opponent pushed or carried him backward. [Sec. 13 Art 1. "The Forward Progress of a runner or airborne receiver is the point at which his advance toward his opponent’s goal ends and is the spot at which the ball is declared dead by rule, irrespective of the runner or receiver being pushed or carried backward by an opponent."]

If refs do as you say [“not going to make a determination of what backwards movement is caused by being pushed and which is caused by him pulling the ball back to tuck it away”], the play must stand as called. To assert Elliot’s FP was the 19 and NOT the 20 as called on the field, the ref must possess clear and obvious visual evidence that expressly asserts Elliot was pushed or carried backward from the 19.

That VISUAL evidence doesn’t exist.
PackFanWithTwins
7 years ago

If refs do as you say [“not going to make a determination of what backwards movement is caused by being pushed and which is caused by him pulling the ball back to tuck it away”], the play must stand as called. To assert Elliot’s FP was the 19 and NOT the 20 as called on the field, the ref must possess clear and obvious visual evidence that expressly asserts Elliot was pushed or carried backward from the 19.

That VISUAL evidence doesn’t exist.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



You have it all mixed up. The ruling on the field was the ball carriers forward progress was stopped and the furthest point of the ball forward only made it to the 20. The challenge was whether the ball made it further which there was clear evidence of.





The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
7 years ago

You have it all mixed up. The ruling on the field was the ball carriers forward progress was stopped and the furthest point of the ball forward only made it to the 20. The challenge was whether the ball made it further which there was clear evidence of.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



The ruling on field was that Elliot's own momentum had him stopped at the 20 before being pushed or carried backward [IE 20="forward progress"]. To re-spot at the 19/overturn, "clear and obvious visual evidence" is required that demonstrates he got to the 19 on his own momentum [Agree that exists] AND that he was pushed or carried back by GB [Which does not exist].
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (2h) : Soft hope plan is having fantasy football weekly on-site that i build. cannot do that with this setup.
Zero2Cool (2h) : It's older technology, resource hog, cannot be upgraded/changed. That's to start.
packerfanoutwest (3h) : Ok, but what is wrong with this site?
Zero2Cool (4h) : check out packerpeople.com
Mucky Tundra (16h) : Oh crap I missed that! I thought it was a 2026 pick
Zero2Cool (16h) : It wasn't even next year pick, it's two years away. old dog food value
Mucky Tundra (16h) : Yep! Everytime a team trades with Howie that team is the loser (so says the media)
Zero2Cool (17h) : We are hosed.
Mucky Tundra (17h) : Per Schefter, GB is sending a 6th rounder for OT Darian Kennard
Zero2Cool (24-Aug) : Finally got new site to keep folks logged in. New tech is pain sometimes
dfosterf (23-Aug) : Taylor Elgersma is going to be very hard to hide.
Mucky Tundra (23-Aug) : Matthew Golden=DAWG (so load the wagons!!) !!!!!
dfosterf (18-Aug) : We do have good depth at running back imo. Still so frustrating. Bitching about it is a futile excercise, which I plan to do anyway.
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : Whoops, I thought Zero was saying it was a surprise the Brewers lost and not Lloyd being hurt
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : Not a surprise; inevitable
Zero2Cool (17-Aug) : Brewers streak ends at 14
Zero2Cool (17-Aug) : SURPRISE
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : @mattschneidman Matt LaFleur on MarShawn Lloyd: “He’s gonna miss some time.”
Mucky Tundra (16-Aug) : CLIFFORD WITH THE TD WITH UNDER 2 TO GO!!!!!
Zero2Cool (16-Aug) : 90 MINUTES UNTIL FAKE KICKOFF!!
Martha Careful (16-Aug) : I think Ruven is a bot, but regardless should be stricken from the site.
Zero2Cool (14-Aug) : Packers RB Josh Jacobs ranked No. 33 in NFL 'Top 100'
dfosterf (13-Aug) : The LVN Musgrave collision- Andy Herman said Musgrave seemed to be the one most impacted injury-wise
dfosterf (13-Aug) : a lower back injury
dfosterf (13-Aug) : Doubs says he's "fine" after injury scare. Some reported it as z
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : With LVN that is; need to see what happens in the next practice
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : beast, reading about what happened, it sounded like one of those "two guys collide and are moving slow afterwards" type of deals
beast (12-Aug) : I believe Musgrave has been injured every single season since at least a Sophomore in highschool
packerfanoutwest (12-Aug) : Matt LaFleur: “Highly unlikely” Jordan Love plays more this preseason
dfosterf (12-Aug) : Doubs, Savion Williams, LVN, Musgrave all banged up to one degree or another, missing one here I forget
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : RB Tyrion Davis-Price is signing with the Green Bay Packers.
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : zero help, dominated. preseason
beast (12-Aug) : QB Jordan Love has surgery
beast (12-Aug) : Martha said Morgan had a lot of help, I didn't watch the OL so I can't say.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers LT Jordan Morgan did not allow a single pressure across 23 pass-blocking snaps vs. Jets last night, per PFF
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : With buckeye and the reasonable couple, we're currently sitting at 10
buckeyepackfan (10-Aug) : Just posted to re-up on our FFL.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : If healthy after, then thats all I care. Well, no drops would be nice
wpr (10-Aug) : I made it through the 1st Q.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Just gotta figure out how.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Could have been a worse start, so there is that.
beast (10-Aug) : Yeah, someone tell the Packers football season has started, seems like they weren't ready for it
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : Sooooooo many penalties
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : It may only be preseason, but this game is a trip to the dentist
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do bad -- FREAK OUT!!!!!!
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do good -- eh only preseason
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Well that half was fun
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Great, zayne is down
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : 13 minutes away from kickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkoffff
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Had Celebration of Life for my uncle up north. wicked rain hope it dont come south
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
2h / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

15h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

18h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

20h / Fantasy Sports Talk / Zero2Cool

24-Aug / Around The NFL / beast

23-Aug / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

22-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

21-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

19-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

18-Aug / Around The NFL / isaiah

18-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

17-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

17-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

15-Aug / Around The NFL / Mucky Tundra

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.