steveishere
8 years ago

Why don't list me a team that would trade a Megatron or Julio Jones for Jordy fricken Nelson and you win this disagreement.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



I'm sure teams with Randy Moss and TO would have traded them for Javon Walker right? Yet you maintain he was a "#1". I doubt Atlanta would have traded Julio Jones for Calvin Johnson either.
DakotaT
8 years ago

I'm sure teams with Randy Moss and TO would have traded them for Javon Walker right? Yet you maintain he was a "#1".

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



So you can't, OK then. Now we need to switch tactics? OK, I'll play along. Javon Walker got injured before all the gaudy stats were in his resume. Although, he was Favre's top guy over Donald Driver at the time. Walker was exactly what a true #1 receiver is, which is why this organization traded up to get him.

Do you want to go take pock shots at Sterling Sharpe too, or do you agree he was a legitimate #1 receiver.

This organization also screwed the pooch when it draft Bulaga over Dez Bryant.

Anything else for you today, Big Steve?
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
8 years ago

He can't be a #1!
He's not 6'4" with a 48" vertical and 4.30 speed !


Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



Exactly. I don't know why you guys keep up your idiotic argument. You should be making the argument if a true #1 receiver is good for a west coast offense or are you better off with several #2 receivers.

I know you were being sarcastic, but don't actually have to be right to pull that off?
UserPostedImage
steveishere
8 years ago

So you can't, OK then. Now we need to switch tactics? OK, I'll play along. Javon Walker got injured before all the gaudy stats were in his resume. Although, he was Favre's top guy over Donald Driver at the time. Walker was exactly what a true #1 receiver is, which is why this organization traded up to get him.

Do you want to go take pock shots at Sterling Sharpe too, or do you agree he was a legitimate #1 receiver.

This organization also screwed the pooch when it draft Bulaga over Dez Bryant.

Anything else for you today, Big Steve?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



So I guess you wouldn't have traded Moss or TO for Javon Walker, OK then. It's not switching tactics I'm just trying to figure our your actual criteria for #1WR since by your explanation so far Javon Walker doesn't meet it.

Javon Walker doesn't belong in the conversation with Sterling Sharpe though he doesn't meet your criteria for #1WR either since the 49ers wouldn't have traded Jerry Rice for him.

I don't necessarily disagree that Dez Bryant could have been a better pick than Bulaga but he's really wouldn't have been much of an upgrade over Jordy to this point. He's more of a possession WR than a deep threat which is what we need most. He's not good enough to be worth pining over especially considering how good our OL is this year.
DakotaT
8 years ago

So I guess you wouldn't have traded Moss or TO for Javon Walker, OK then. It's not switching tactics I'm just trying to figure our your actual criteria for #1WR since by your explanation so far Javon Walker doesn't meet it.

Javon Walker doesn't belong in the conversation with Sterling Sharpe though he doesn't meet your criteria for #1WR either since the 49ers wouldn't have traded Jerry Rice for him.

I don't necessarily disagree that Dez Bryant could have been a better pick than Bulaga but he's really wouldn't have been much of an upgrade over Jordy to this point. He's more of a possession WR than a deep threat which is what we need most. He's not good enough to be worth pining over especially considering how good our OL is this year.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



The reason Jordy Nelson wasn't ever considered a #1 receiver is because he could be defended with one player. A true number one cannot be defended. And if any you think we actually have anything close to that on this roster right now, I sure would like you to pass me the bong.

Jordy Nelson was a very good, productive receiver, but he just is not in the same league as guys like Megatron, Julio, Dez Bryant etc. But it's been a real fun 2 year argument.

UserPostedImage
Porforis
8 years ago

Why don't list me a team that would trade a Megatron or Julio Jones for Jordy fricken Nelson and you win this disagreement.

The reason Jordy Nelson wasn't ever considered a #1 receiver is because he could be defended with one player. A true number one cannot be defended. And if any you think we actually have anything close to that on this roster right now, I sure would like you to pass me the bong.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



I think we're dealing with a language problem here.

To me, #1 receiver refers to a level of talent that can do a good job against most teams' #1 CBs.
An ELITE WR is just that. The best of the best, taking an elite CB to hold him/her in check. The vast majority of teams don't have an elite CB, and need to double-team that person. The perfect mix of skill, physical ability, and intangibles.

There are a lot of #1 receivers out there. Not 32 by any means, but a lot.
There are only a few elite WRs out there.

Jordy WAS a #1 WR by my definition of the term (that being, able to succeed against most teams' #1 CBs one on one consistently). He had the stats and catches to prove it. Yes, he was never juking people or blowing past him, but he ran excellent routes and catches. You don't remember the classic Rodgers to Jordy, indefensible sideline catch that was always just inbounds and away from the CB (kudos to Rodgers), but frequenty required Jordy to turn around, lay out, and catch the ball while keeping his feet inbounds (kudos to Nelson)?

Since coming back from injury he has not been playing like one. He's been dropping hard-to-catch balls he would have caught in the past and has lost some of his (already average) speed/cutting abilities.

Yes, Rodgers' performance in years past make him look better than he actually is.

To say he wasn't a #1 WR... By my definition of the term, I disagree.
steveishere
8 years ago

The reason Jordy Nelson wasn't ever considered a #1 receiver is because he could be defended with one player. A true number one cannot be defended. And if any you think we actually have anything close to that on this roster right now, I sure would like you to pass me the bong.

Jordy Nelson was a very good, productive receiver, but he just is not in the same league as guys like Megatron, Julio, Dez Bryant etc. But it's been a real fun 2 year argument.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Every WR can be defended with 1 player it depends on the match ups (difference being the top guys have less of those match ups that will work out). When Julio had a quiet game against denver this year it wasn't because they double teamed him every play it was because their CBs Talib and Harris are really good and covered him well wherever he lined up, it happens. I don't see why Dez Bryant is even in a conversation with CJ and Julio. Dez is really good at jump balls but he doesn't take the top off like those guys do.

I just see how before he got hurt Jordy could do anything - catch 70 yard deep TDs against bracket coverage, take a quick slant to the house, make those sideline catches, play out of the slot without missing a beat. He torched single coverage all the time. Now you see after he gets hurt how much having him on the team elevated guys like Rodgers and Cobb and helped make the MVP producing offense fall to a below average one.

You keep grouping him in with guys like Cobb, Jones, Driver who you consider #2 WR but I don't think there's much of an argument that Jordy was clearly above and better than those guys and had a bigger impact on the game. Jennings was closest but I don't think he was ever really as good as Jordy had been from 2011- 2014. I don't think he's as good as Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones or Antonio Brown but he did affect the way teams played defense against us. To me that's a #1.

No we don't have anyone on the roster like that now. The biggest problem isn't just what we have though it's what we have vs what we are paying for, we paid for the Cobb that came along with 100% Jordy and MVP Rodgers and paid for 100% Jordy which we don't have. Davante is fine because he's playing up to his cap hit and maybe even a bit above it.
DarkaneRules
8 years ago
Davante is actually better for the contested type of plays. I'd like to see more. It will be more dramatic but it suits him. Ty is our x factor. He can line up anywhere and isn't afraid to run between the tackles.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
PackFanWithTwins
8 years ago
ATTENTION!!!!!! ATTENTION!!!!!!!

The topic is not whether Davante is a prototypical #1 receiver ala Megatron or Dez. The question was whether he is the Packers #1 WR.



The answer being NO he is neither.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
steveishere
8 years ago

Davante is actually better for the contested type of plays. I'd like to see more. It will be more dramatic but it suits him. Ty is our x factor. He can line up anywhere and isn't afraid to run between the tackles.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules 



That's what he was supposed to be coming out of college but he really hasn't been good at getting passes he's had to make adjustments for or catching anything with hands on him or in his face. He showed some of that last week but that needs to continue.
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (1h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (1h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (1h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (1h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other
beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)
Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.
beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs
packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.
beast (21-Dec) : Oh, that's how you keep beating buckeye, with cheating
Zero2Cool (20-Dec) : There is a rule that if your name starts with 'b' you lose 15 points. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them!
wpr (20-Dec) : and then there is Beast. Running away with it all.
beast (20-Dec) : As of tonight, 3 way tie for 2nd in Pick'em, that battle is interesting!
beast (20-Dec) : Lions vs Vikings could be the main last game as it could determine division winners or #1 vs #2 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Or if KC needs to win for the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Right now it looks like the only prime worthy games are Det-Minny and KC-Denver (if Denver can clinch a wild card spot)
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : The entirety of week 18 being listed as flex is weird
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Matt LaFleur today says unequivocally "Ted Thompson had nothing to do with the drafting of Jordan Love."
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Apparently, the editing is what pieces comments together. That Ted thing ... fake news.
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : LaFleur "opportunity that Ted Thompson thought was too good to pass up"
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Jordan Love pick was Ted Thompson's idea.
Mucky Tundra (19-Dec) : Kyle Shanahan on signing De'Vondre Campbell as a FA last offseason: “We obviously made a mistake.”
packerfanoutwest (19-Dec) : Alexander’s last season with GB
Martha Careful (18-Dec) : if I were a professional athlete, I would probably look to see who the agent is for Kirk Cousins and then use him
beast (18-Dec) : $100 million fully guaranteed Kirk Cousins gets benched for rookie
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : a lower case b
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : The real lie is how beast capitalized his name in his message while it's normally spelled with
packerfanoutwest (18-Dec) : haha that's a lie
beast (17-Dec) : Despite what lies other might tell, Beast didn't hate the Winter Warnings, it felt refreshing to Beast for some reason.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : whiteout uniforms in general are pretty lame and weak. NFL greed at it's worst
Martha Careful (17-Dec) : The Viking uniforms, the whiteout uniforms specifically absolutely suck
beast (17-Dec) : Thanks Zero2Cool, looks a lot better now
beast (17-Dec) : Seems like someone has a crush on me, can't stop talking about me
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : Should be gooder now. The forum default theme went to goofy land.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : What the hell
packerfanoutwest (17-Dec) : yeah beast hates the Winter Warning Unies
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Okay I'm glad to know it's not just something happening to me lol
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Zero, did you copy the Packers uniforms from last night and white out the board?
beast (16-Dec) : Oh crap, is the board going to the Winter Warning Uniforms too?!? It's all white on white right now!
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : WR Odell Beckham Jr is officially a free agent after clearing waivers.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : Packers are 6th in sacks.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : RB David Montgomery will undergo season-ending knee surgery.
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Dan Campbell on onside kick with 12 minutes left: In hindsight, wish I didn’t do that
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : They have that whole 12th man thing so ...
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : Of the times we've played there, I just can't recall hearing our fans.
wpr (16-Dec) : Well done jdlax. Well done.
wpr (16-Dec) : I think more likely to be Pack fans that live in the area.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / packerfanoutwest

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

19-Dec / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

17-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

17-Dec / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

16-Dec / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Mucky Tundra

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.