steveishere
8 years ago

Why don't list me a team that would trade a Megatron or Julio Jones for Jordy fricken Nelson and you win this disagreement.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



I'm sure teams with Randy Moss and TO would have traded them for Javon Walker right? Yet you maintain he was a "#1". I doubt Atlanta would have traded Julio Jones for Calvin Johnson either.
DakotaT
8 years ago

I'm sure teams with Randy Moss and TO would have traded them for Javon Walker right? Yet you maintain he was a "#1".

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



So you can't, OK then. Now we need to switch tactics? OK, I'll play along. Javon Walker got injured before all the gaudy stats were in his resume. Although, he was Favre's top guy over Donald Driver at the time. Walker was exactly what a true #1 receiver is, which is why this organization traded up to get him.

Do you want to go take pock shots at Sterling Sharpe too, or do you agree he was a legitimate #1 receiver.

This organization also screwed the pooch when it draft Bulaga over Dez Bryant.

Anything else for you today, Big Steve?
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
8 years ago

He can't be a #1!
He's not 6'4" with a 48" vertical and 4.30 speed !


Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



Exactly. I don't know why you guys keep up your idiotic argument. You should be making the argument if a true #1 receiver is good for a west coast offense or are you better off with several #2 receivers.

I know you were being sarcastic, but don't actually have to be right to pull that off?
UserPostedImage
steveishere
8 years ago

So you can't, OK then. Now we need to switch tactics? OK, I'll play along. Javon Walker got injured before all the gaudy stats were in his resume. Although, he was Favre's top guy over Donald Driver at the time. Walker was exactly what a true #1 receiver is, which is why this organization traded up to get him.

Do you want to go take pock shots at Sterling Sharpe too, or do you agree he was a legitimate #1 receiver.

This organization also screwed the pooch when it draft Bulaga over Dez Bryant.

Anything else for you today, Big Steve?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



So I guess you wouldn't have traded Moss or TO for Javon Walker, OK then. It's not switching tactics I'm just trying to figure our your actual criteria for #1WR since by your explanation so far Javon Walker doesn't meet it.

Javon Walker doesn't belong in the conversation with Sterling Sharpe though he doesn't meet your criteria for #1WR either since the 49ers wouldn't have traded Jerry Rice for him.

I don't necessarily disagree that Dez Bryant could have been a better pick than Bulaga but he's really wouldn't have been much of an upgrade over Jordy to this point. He's more of a possession WR than a deep threat which is what we need most. He's not good enough to be worth pining over especially considering how good our OL is this year.
DakotaT
8 years ago

So I guess you wouldn't have traded Moss or TO for Javon Walker, OK then. It's not switching tactics I'm just trying to figure our your actual criteria for #1WR since by your explanation so far Javon Walker doesn't meet it.

Javon Walker doesn't belong in the conversation with Sterling Sharpe though he doesn't meet your criteria for #1WR either since the 49ers wouldn't have traded Jerry Rice for him.

I don't necessarily disagree that Dez Bryant could have been a better pick than Bulaga but he's really wouldn't have been much of an upgrade over Jordy to this point. He's more of a possession WR than a deep threat which is what we need most. He's not good enough to be worth pining over especially considering how good our OL is this year.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



The reason Jordy Nelson wasn't ever considered a #1 receiver is because he could be defended with one player. A true number one cannot be defended. And if any you think we actually have anything close to that on this roster right now, I sure would like you to pass me the bong.

Jordy Nelson was a very good, productive receiver, but he just is not in the same league as guys like Megatron, Julio, Dez Bryant etc. But it's been a real fun 2 year argument.

UserPostedImage
Porforis
8 years ago

Why don't list me a team that would trade a Megatron or Julio Jones for Jordy fricken Nelson and you win this disagreement.

The reason Jordy Nelson wasn't ever considered a #1 receiver is because he could be defended with one player. A true number one cannot be defended. And if any you think we actually have anything close to that on this roster right now, I sure would like you to pass me the bong.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



I think we're dealing with a language problem here.

To me, #1 receiver refers to a level of talent that can do a good job against most teams' #1 CBs.
An ELITE WR is just that. The best of the best, taking an elite CB to hold him/her in check. The vast majority of teams don't have an elite CB, and need to double-team that person. The perfect mix of skill, physical ability, and intangibles.

There are a lot of #1 receivers out there. Not 32 by any means, but a lot.
There are only a few elite WRs out there.

Jordy WAS a #1 WR by my definition of the term (that being, able to succeed against most teams' #1 CBs one on one consistently). He had the stats and catches to prove it. Yes, he was never juking people or blowing past him, but he ran excellent routes and catches. You don't remember the classic Rodgers to Jordy, indefensible sideline catch that was always just inbounds and away from the CB (kudos to Rodgers), but frequenty required Jordy to turn around, lay out, and catch the ball while keeping his feet inbounds (kudos to Nelson)?

Since coming back from injury he has not been playing like one. He's been dropping hard-to-catch balls he would have caught in the past and has lost some of his (already average) speed/cutting abilities.

Yes, Rodgers' performance in years past make him look better than he actually is.

To say he wasn't a #1 WR... By my definition of the term, I disagree.
steveishere
8 years ago

The reason Jordy Nelson wasn't ever considered a #1 receiver is because he could be defended with one player. A true number one cannot be defended. And if any you think we actually have anything close to that on this roster right now, I sure would like you to pass me the bong.

Jordy Nelson was a very good, productive receiver, but he just is not in the same league as guys like Megatron, Julio, Dez Bryant etc. But it's been a real fun 2 year argument.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Every WR can be defended with 1 player it depends on the match ups (difference being the top guys have less of those match ups that will work out). When Julio had a quiet game against denver this year it wasn't because they double teamed him every play it was because their CBs Talib and Harris are really good and covered him well wherever he lined up, it happens. I don't see why Dez Bryant is even in a conversation with CJ and Julio. Dez is really good at jump balls but he doesn't take the top off like those guys do.

I just see how before he got hurt Jordy could do anything - catch 70 yard deep TDs against bracket coverage, take a quick slant to the house, make those sideline catches, play out of the slot without missing a beat. He torched single coverage all the time. Now you see after he gets hurt how much having him on the team elevated guys like Rodgers and Cobb and helped make the MVP producing offense fall to a below average one.

You keep grouping him in with guys like Cobb, Jones, Driver who you consider #2 WR but I don't think there's much of an argument that Jordy was clearly above and better than those guys and had a bigger impact on the game. Jennings was closest but I don't think he was ever really as good as Jordy had been from 2011- 2014. I don't think he's as good as Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones or Antonio Brown but he did affect the way teams played defense against us. To me that's a #1.

No we don't have anyone on the roster like that now. The biggest problem isn't just what we have though it's what we have vs what we are paying for, we paid for the Cobb that came along with 100% Jordy and MVP Rodgers and paid for 100% Jordy which we don't have. Davante is fine because he's playing up to his cap hit and maybe even a bit above it.
DarkaneRules
8 years ago
Davante is actually better for the contested type of plays. I'd like to see more. It will be more dramatic but it suits him. Ty is our x factor. He can line up anywhere and isn't afraid to run between the tackles.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
PackFanWithTwins
8 years ago
ATTENTION!!!!!! ATTENTION!!!!!!!

The topic is not whether Davante is a prototypical #1 receiver ala Megatron or Dez. The question was whether he is the Packers #1 WR.



The answer being NO he is neither.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
steveishere
8 years ago

Davante is actually better for the contested type of plays. I'd like to see more. It will be more dramatic but it suits him. Ty is our x factor. He can line up anywhere and isn't afraid to run between the tackles.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules 



That's what he was supposed to be coming out of college but he really hasn't been good at getting passes he's had to make adjustments for or catching anything with hands on him or in his face. He showed some of that last week but that needs to continue.
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Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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