Davante Adams is the Packers' No. 1 wideout· Page 2

steveishere
Veteran Member

8 years ago

Why don't list me a team that would trade a Megatron or Julio Jones for Jordy fricken Nelson and you win this disagreement.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

I'm sure teams with Randy Moss and TO would have traded them for Javon Walker right? Yet you maintain he was a "#1". I doubt Atlanta would have traded Julio Jones for Calvin Johnson either.

DakotaT
Select Member

8 years ago

#12

I'm sure teams with Randy Moss and TO would have traded them for Javon Walker right? Yet you maintain he was a "#1".

Originally Posted by: steveishere

So you can't, OK then. Now we need to switch tactics? OK, I'll play along. Javon Walker got injured before all the gaudy stats were in his resume. Although, he was Favre's top guy over Donald Driver at the time. Walker was exactly what a true #1 receiver is, which is why this organization traded up to get him.

Do you want to go take pock shots at Sterling Sharpe too, or do you agree he was a legitimate #1 receiver.

This organization also screwed the pooch when it draft Bulaga over Dez Bryant.

Anything else for you today, Big Steve?

DakotaT
Select Member

8 years ago

#13

He can't be a #1!
He's not 6'4" with a 48" vertical and 4.30 speed !

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan

Exactly. I don't know why you guys keep up your idiotic argument. You should be making the argument if a true #1 receiver is good for a west coast offense or are you better off with several #2 receivers.

I know you were being sarcastic, but don't actually have to be right to pull that off?

steveishere
Veteran Member

8 years ago

#14

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

So I guess you wouldn't have traded Moss or TO for Javon Walker, OK then. It's not switching tactics I'm just trying to figure our your actual criteria for #1WR since by your explanation so far Javon Walker doesn't meet it.

Javon Walker doesn't belong in the conversation with Sterling Sharpe though he doesn't meet your criteria for #1WR either since the 49ers wouldn't have traded Jerry Rice for him.

I don't necessarily disagree that Dez Bryant could have been a better pick than Bulaga but he's really wouldn't have been much of an upgrade over Jordy to this point. He's more of a possession WR than a deep threat which is what we need most. He's not good enough to be worth pining over especially considering how good our OL is this year.

DakotaT
Select Member

8 years ago

#15

Originally Posted by: steveishere

The reason Jordy Nelson wasn't ever considered a #1 receiver is because he could be defended with one player. A true number one cannot be defended. And if any you think we actually have anything close to that on this roster right now, I sure would like you to pass me the bong.

Jordy Nelson was a very good, productive receiver, but he just is not in the same league as guys like Megatron, Julio, Dez Bryant etc. But it's been a real fun 2 year argument.

Porforis
Veteran Member

8 years ago

#16

Why don't list me a team that would trade a Megatron or Julio Jones for Jordy fricken Nelson and you win this disagreement.

The reason Jordy Nelson wasn't ever considered a #1 receiver is because he could be defended with one player. A true number one cannot be defended. And if any you think we actually have anything close to that on this roster right now, I sure would like you to pass me the bong.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

I think we're dealing with a language problem here.

To me, #1 receiver refers to a level of talent that can do a good job against most teams' #1 CBs.
An ELITE WR is just that. The best of the best, taking an elite CB to hold him/her in check. The vast majority of teams don't have an elite CB, and need to double-team that person. The perfect mix of skill, physical ability, and intangibles.

There are a lot of #1 receivers out there. Not 32 by any means, but a lot.
There are only a few elite WRs out there.

Jordy WAS a #1 WR by my definition of the term (that being, able to succeed against most teams' #1 CBs one on one consistently). He had the stats and catches to prove it. Yes, he was never juking people or blowing past him, but he ran excellent routes and catches. You don't remember the classic Rodgers to Jordy, indefensible sideline catch that was always just inbounds and away from the CB (kudos to Rodgers), but frequenty required Jordy to turn around, lay out, and catch the ball while keeping his feet inbounds (kudos to Nelson)?

Since coming back from injury he has not been playing like one. He's been dropping hard-to-catch balls he would have caught in the past and has lost some of his (already average) speed/cutting abilities.

Yes, Rodgers' performance in years past make him look better than he actually is.

To say he wasn't a #1 WR... By my definition of the term, I disagree.

steveishere
Veteran Member

8 years ago

#17

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

Every WR can be defended with 1 player it depends on the match ups (difference being the top guys have less of those match ups that will work out). When Julio had a quiet game against denver this year it wasn't because they double teamed him every play it was because their CBs Talib and Harris are really good and covered him well wherever he lined up, it happens. I don't see why Dez Bryant is even in a conversation with CJ and Julio. Dez is really good at jump balls but he doesn't take the top off like those guys do.

I just see how before he got hurt Jordy could do anything - catch 70 yard deep TDs against bracket coverage, take a quick slant to the house, make those sideline catches, play out of the slot without missing a beat. He torched single coverage all the time. Now you see after he gets hurt how much having him on the team elevated guys like Rodgers and Cobb and helped make the MVP producing offense fall to a below average one.

You keep grouping him in with guys like Cobb, Jones, Driver who you consider #2 WR but I don't think there's much of an argument that Jordy was clearly above and better than those guys and had a bigger impact on the game. Jennings was closest but I don't think he was ever really as good as Jordy had been from 2011- 2014. I don't think he's as good as Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones or Antonio Brown but he did affect the way teams played defense against us. To me that's a #1.

No we don't have anyone on the roster like that now. The biggest problem isn't just what we have though it's what we have vs what we are paying for, we paid for the Cobb that came along with 100% Jordy and MVP Rodgers and paid for 100% Jordy which we don't have. Davante is fine because he's playing up to his cap hit and maybe even a bit above it.

DarkaneRules
Veteran Member

8 years ago

#18

Davante is actually better for the contested type of plays. I'd like to see more. It will be more dramatic but it suits him. Ty is our x factor. He can line up anywhere and isn't afraid to run between the tackles.

Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance

PackFanWithTwins
Veteran Member

8 years ago

#19

ATTENTION!!!!!! ATTENTION!!!!!!!

The topic is not whether Davante is a prototypical #1 receiver ala Megatron or Dez. The question was whether he is the Packers #1 WR.

The answer being NO he is neither.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!

steveishere
Veteran Member

8 years ago

#20

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules

That's what he was supposed to be coming out of college but he really hasn't been good at getting passes he's had to make adjustments for or catching anything with hands on him or in his face. He showed some of that last week but that needs to continue.

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Fan Shout

wpr (13h) : 7 days

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying

dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount

dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep

dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire

dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"

dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.

dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent

dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility

dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission

dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.

dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"

dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that

dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?

Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent

Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?

Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024

Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.

dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move

dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish

Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need

dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.

dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.

Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.

dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation

Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what

Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife

Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately

Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.

dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.

Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not

Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.

Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?

Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?

Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb

wpr (9-Apr) : yay

Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland

Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Struggling to figure out what text editor options are needed and which are 'nice to have'

Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you

Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : The spotting of the ball IS the issue. Not the chain gang.

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