Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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16 years ago
I firmly believe this article is spot on.. things I have been saying for about 2 years.. normally not a big fan of the Wisconsin writers.. however this piece is money as far as the online goes.. I think he might be a bit to harsh on Rodgers at this point.. some of that blame falls to the playcalling change.

Now, don't read any more into it than, we need to change the way we are thinking about drafting, selecting and developing our offensive line.. this is in no way a "Ted is crap" thread.. it is an honest assessment of one of the biggest issues on this team. Nothing more... nothing less.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/sports/313968 

Oates: Offensive line's problems start with Thompson
By TOM OATES
608-252-6172
toates@madison.com

Even Ted Thompson's harshest critics have to admit the Green Bay Packers' general manager has built a fairly solid roster in his four years on the job.

The receivers and defensive backs rank among the NFL's best. The linebackers and running backs are sound. The defensive line, when healthy, has been a strength. And though Thompson's exit strategy for quarterback Brett Favre blew up in his face, he at least had a capable replacement in Aaron Rodgers.

However, the one problem Thompson has never solved is the offensive line.

Since Thompson allowed guards Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera to walk in free agency after the 2005 season, the shaky status of the line has held back an offense that has many weapons yet still plays sporadically.

Indeed, Thompson's strategy of drafting small, athletic linemen from obscure schools in the middle rounds and then trying to develop them into blockers for coach Mike McCarthy's zone running scheme has failed miserably.

For a team that often plays in wintery conditions, a physical running game is a necessity. But other than the second half of last season, when the Packers faced a series of lousy defenses, they've been unable to run consistently.

Thompson's failure to find dominant linemen to play between veteran tackles Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher came crashing down on the Packers in their loss to the New York Giants in the NFC Championship Game in January and again Sunday when they lost a critical game to the Minnesota Vikings.

When the running game was inconsistent, McCarthy abandoned it, as he often does. Then the Vikings' fast, physical front four simply overwhelmed the Packers, giving Rodgers little time to make decisions or throws and forcing the Packers into one of their worst offensive games under McCarthy.

In nine starts, Rodgers has shown he can be a very effective passer when given time. But though he's mobile, Rodgers doesn't have Favre's instincts or strength in the pocket.

Favre had the rare ability to make a play when everything around him was falling apart. Rodgers hasn't shown that quality, so for him to be a good NFL quarterback, he'll need an effective running game to keep defenses from going all-in on the pass rush like the Vikings did.

Clifton had an especially rough day Sunday, a sign that his troublesome knees might finally be affecting his play. At guard, Jason Spitz was just plain overmatched and Daryn Colledge kept drawing penalty flags.

Thompson drafted Junius Coston and Will Whitticker in 2005, Colledge, Spitz and Tony Moll in 2006, Allen Barbre in 2007 and Josh Sitton and Breno Giacomini this year. Most remain with the team, but the Packers' three best linemen are Tauscher, Clifton (until recently) and center Scott Wells, all of whom Thompson inherited.

The inability to run trickles down to all aspects of the game. A running game buys a quarterback time to throw, makes the play-action game go and keeps the defense off the field so it doesn't wilt in the fourth quarter.

Until the Packers develop a physical line with no weak links, their running game indeed, their entire team will suffer.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
bigfog
16 years ago
That article has it pegged, unfortunately, The Zone Blocking system simply doesn't work and hopefully, this is the season that it gets scrapped. I miss the days of a road-grating offensive line, let's get that back.
"I wouldn't root for the Minnesota Vikings to win a chess match against Nazi Germany."
bozz_2006
16 years ago
Offensive line is what's keeping this team from being good.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
16 years ago
I read somewhere, elsewhere, can't remember where, that Ted was complying with Mike's wishes as regards this offensive line. I am not defending Ted in any way on this, I am simply reporting what I read and am asking if anyone else recalls hearing about this. As far as I'm concerned, Ted is responsible for this line, but if what I heard/read is true...well, then I guess I get to bitch about Mike McCarthy also, which is a bonus in my present (and past) mood on the whole disgusting matter.

I got some more... 2 damn years we have all been sweating this line. In the offseason, we wait with bated breath for an impact player in FA, in the draft, etc. We get yet another linebacker (excellent pick-still pissed me off we weren't addressing what I perceived as our major weakness), then we cut Jon Ryan for that foreskin puke of a punter... oh, 93z you have awakened the sleeping giant of "pissed-off" in me... :icon_smile:
16 years ago
Maybe it's the coaching? We've had a number of talented-enough players drafted at those positions. You look at a line like NE who gets it done in dominant fashion with overachieving players and wonder why we can't.

Look at the sacks we allowed last year, and the yards Grant put up. The Giants D-line dominated everyone throughout the postseason. There really wasn't proof to suggest that we would struggle as much as we have this year. This is definitely a hindsight article.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
16 years ago
Mass Pack--- Our interior line is too small. I gave Colledge a chance in my mind, the three year thing, etc. Too small, Too small, Too small.
Go get big ones THIS DOES NOT WORK. Screw coaching. GET BIG ONES....AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

jmo.
16 years ago
I don't understand why these guys aren't getting visibly stronger. You look at every other position almost, and Rock's program has made people monsters. And then at the position we need it the most, they just seem weak.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
16 years ago
We got fooled, and now we're gettin schooled. They were "good enough" with a certain quarterback I am not authorized to mention, the perfect storm of momentum/fear of that same fellow/etc. That party is over. FIX IT TED. (I bet he does, I have confidence in him) I UNDERSTAND how it could happen, that doesn't mean I HAVE TO LIKE IT. It could be coaching, Mass... I doubt it. These guys are just not big enough- we need a higher class of horse to begin with, if I can draw a horsebettor analogy.
Bigger does not always mean slower, either... got to go EARLY in the draft to get the right draft horse (oh, I kinda like that one :icon_smile: )
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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16 years ago

Maybe it's the coaching? We've had a number of talented-enough players drafted at those positions. You look at a line like NE who gets it done in dominant fashion with overachieving players and wonder why we can't.

Look at the sacks we allowed last year, and the yards Grant put up. The Giants D-line dominated everyone throughout the postseason. There really wasn't proof to suggest that we would struggle as much as we have this year. This is definitely a hindsight article.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



Hindsight is all we have at this point correct? We can only look at the production of this line in total.. even last year when we were effect running the ball.. one week up and one week down..

I have said it once I have said it a hundred times, the problem is really two fold.. we are taking college tackles and TE and trying to make them learn to play low and become a guard. Two, we haven't seen the development of talent across the line.. Coston should have been a player by this time.. he had the tools.. as well as Spitz.. but they aren't progressing as they should.. that points to coaching in my book.

Albeit, people bang on the scheme, which we run a hybrid of a cross between drive blocking and zone in the running game, and in the zone to be effective you have to stop the movement of the defender to allow the running lanes to form.. without cutting and being undersized.. that is a difficult task.

I personally hate the cut block.. as a defender you hate guys hitting around the knees and alot of times you have extreme stress on your legs in the first place.. cutting leads to injuries, and I am not in favor of it.

So, in the end, I agree that our modified version of a run scheme isn't effective with smaller lineman.. they just aren't stout enough to pull it off, then playing high without optimal leverage isn't helping either.

Campen nor Fontenot have ever ran the zone.. they are old school drive blockers.. but even there something is amiss.. these lineman are playing technique sound ball.

In the end.. it has to be one of the biggest priorities again this offseason.. time to "get our house clean" along the offensive front.

I will give this line this credit.. more so than not over the past three years, they have been an above average line in pass protection in general.. but there is more to football than passing the ball.

Defenses aren't respecting our run game and can feel comfortable in sending extra people crashing on most downs.. we are making their job easier..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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16 years ago
BTW.. I am done banging on the offensive lines woes.. I just had to run it through my system yet this morning.. sloppy play without much sign of growth just pisses me off. 4 flipping years of it along the oline.. 4 years.

Year one.. I understood, hand was forced.. stop gaps were tried.

Year two.. rookies added along the line.. need to develop and live through the growing pains.

Year three.. expect the group to make a step forward.. first half of the season.. hmmm.. disappointing.. second half.. signs of life but still inconsistent as a frog pissing into the wind.

Year four.. expect growth off strong second half.. instead getting regressed play and still inconsistent as that same frog last year, except the temperature is dropping and the liquid is starting to freeze.

One pissed off frog.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
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