buckeyepackfan
9 years ago


Love him or hate him, Packers general manager Ted Thompson does things his own way.  Fans are often infuriated with his complete disregard to free agency (especially towards top tier free agents) and drafting players who no one knows about in the “wrong spots” (at least according to Mel Kiper Jr.).  Plenty of fans will gripe about the best player available strategy, which often leaves perceived holes in the roster while creating log jams in others.  But perhaps worse of all is that fans know Thompson is stubborn and will do things the way he wants and given how successful the Packers have been under his tenure, he likely gets to set his own terms for retirement. 

CheeseheadTV wrote:



The pure genius of Ted Thompson!
King of misinformation!
Always keeps them guessing!
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
nerdmann
9 years ago
This draft definitely seemed more weighted toward "need" than others have been in the past.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
DoddPower
9 years ago

This draft definitely seemed more weighted toward "need" than others have been in the past.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



That could be true, and if so, makes me nervous. Drafting for need is never a good idea. Just get good players in the draft. Gaping holes can be filled via free agency, in theory. Much like the Jared Cook signing this season.
yooperfan
9 years ago

Gaping holes can be filled via free agency, in theory.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 


Except under Teddy "gaping holes" go unfilled for years at a time because free agency is a dirty term to Teddy.
So at some point in time Teddy needs to draft for need.
Never mind that the guys he finally drafts for need rarely are good enough to fill that need immediately.
So the Packers remain stuck in second gear year after year.

sschind
9 years ago
What exactly determines who is the best player? What determines that player A is better than player B and perhaps as important who gets to determine which player is the best player available? Is there some master list created by a committee of college football guru's, or maybe its just one guy, that determines where each and every player falls on the BPA spectrum? Or does each GM determine his list of "best" players based on his own research, the research of his scouts and the needs and best fits for his own team? If the GM doesn't take the best player according to you or I does that mean he is not taking the best player? I'm pretty sure GMs don't make a list of 1 to 500 (or however many players are eligible for the draft) and say "this is my list, I'm going to cross names off as they are taken and when it comes to my turn I'm going to take the highest one left. According to us fans that would be taking the best player available but I really doubt that is how GMs approach it. We get hung up on "best player" as meaning the "BEST" player, that is which one is more talented when in reality it is probably more like best player for our team at this time and I can't believe that need doesn't factor into it.

A strict BPA list would be akin to a writers top 100 prospects list. The best players, from 1-100 regardless of position, or team need. If you look at those same writers mock drafts they never follow their lists 100 percent and that is because they factor in team need as well. I'm sure GMs do the same thing. At least I hope they do because a true BPA drafting GM could conceivably draft 7 straight players at the same position and no matter how much we say we WANT or GM to draft the BPA we all know we would go ape shit if they did that.

So if we agree to all this then who is to say that Ted is lying to us about taking the best player available? I'm sure he is takingthe player he thinks is the bet one and I am sure need does factor into what makes that player the best one. I'm also pretty sure if a cornerback would have been the highest player rated on Teds draft board when his pick came around in the 3rd round last year he would have though long and hard about going with a different position.
macbob
9 years ago

This draft definitely seemed more weighted toward "need" than others have been in the past.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



I think at least part of that were the dynamics of where we were picking and the players available. I thought there were a number of guys of about the same level when our turn came up in the first round. I was hoping we'd trade back (like the team before and after us did) as I felt we could get the same quality a few picks later in round 1/start of round 2.

When you're picking and there's not a huge difference in the players available, I felt we went with the one that fit best to our needs, but I didn't feel that we had abandoned the BPA approach--there just wasn't a huge difference in players available when our picks rolled around.

When there became a difference in value, Ted traded up IOT draft Spriggs.
nerdmann
9 years ago

What exactly determines who is the best player? What determines that player A is better than player B and perhaps as important who gets to determine which player is the best player available? Is there some master list created by a committee of college football guru's, or maybe its just one guy, that determines where each and every player falls on the BPA spectrum? Or does each GM determine his list of "best" players based on his own research, the research of his scouts and the needs and best fits for his own team? If the GM doesn't take the best player according to you or I does that mean he is not taking the best player? I'm pretty sure GMs don't make a list of 1 to 500 (or however many players are eligible for the draft) and say "this is my list, I'm going to cross names off as they are taken and when it comes to my turn I'm going to take the highest one left. According to us fans that would be taking the best player available but I really doubt that is how GMs approach it. We get hung up on "best player" as meaning the "BEST" player, that is which one is more talented when in reality it is probably more like best player for our team at this time and I can't believe that need doesn't factor into it.

A strict BPA list would be akin to a writers top 100 prospects list. The best players, from 1-100 regardless of position, or team need. If you look at those same writers mock drafts they never follow their lists 100 percent and that is because they factor in team need as well. I'm sure GMs do the same thing. At least I hope they do because a true BPA drafting GM could conceivably draft 7 straight players at the same position and no matter how much we say we WANT or GM to draft the BPA we all know we would go ape shit if they did that.

So if we agree to all this then who is to say that Ted is lying to us about taking the best player available? I'm sure he is takingthe player he thinks is the bet one and I am sure need does factor into what makes that player the best one. I'm also pretty sure if a cornerback would have been the highest player rated on Teds draft board when his pick came around in the 3rd round last year he would have though long and hard about going with a different position.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



Ted has a whole team of scouts dude.

They create a board that is based on BPA, for OUR team. They're not making an abstract list of "players who are good." Although when they draft guys on defense who don't fit our scheme, it makes me wonder.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
warhawk
9 years ago

I think at least part of that were the dynamics of where we were picking and the players available. I thought there were a number of guys of about the same level when our turn came up in the first round. I was hoping we'd trade back (like the team before and after us did) as I felt we could get the same quality a few picks later in round 1/start of round 2.

When you're picking and there's not a huge difference in the players available, I felt we went with the one that fit best to our needs, but I didn't feel that we had abandoned the BPA approach--there just wasn't a huge difference in players available when our picks rolled around.

When there became a difference in value, Ted traded up IOT draft Spriggs.

Originally Posted by: macbob 



From what I hear he could have traded with Dallas but they only offered a 4th round pick and Ted was afraid Clark and whoever else he had up there would have been gone. It wasn't worth the chance for a 4th round pick.
I think the difference in Clark and Spriggs too was the upside. Clark is 20 years old with a high ceiling especially with how well he fits in Capers scheme. Spriggs probably needs a year but could be a very good OT for many years. Where we pick late in theses rounds every year those guys are hard to find.
This probably does drive some nuts because other players a little more pro ready today would have higher impact this next year but that's not how Ted always rolls.

I agree with how Ted goes about the draft and rookies. If you need rookies to win the SB your probably not going to win the SB. Having said that I think the Packers get as big of a bang for their buck from rookies as about any team in the league. Last year, for example, I didn't think the CB's he selected would be near ready but they performed well. Still, their best is yet to come and that's pretty exciting.


"The train is leaving the station."
sschind
9 years ago

Ted has a whole team of scouts dude.

They create a board that is based on BPA, for OUR team. They're not making an abstract list of "players who are good." Although when they draft guys on defense who don't fit our scheme, it makes me wonder.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



I kinda thought that is what I said. My questions at the front of my post were meant to illustrate the seemingly all to common misconception that there is a list of players and if a GM doesn't take the highest player available on that list he is not taking the BPA. They were not actual questions that I had. I made a similar post on another board where I think I made my thoughts clearer.

Ted drafts Kenny Clark. Fans think there are better players available. Ted didn't draft the BPA. We needed a DL. Ted drafted for need.

That's how a lot of people seem to look at it.

Occasionally a player who plays a position that is not a need falls and is too good to pass up but I think if you look at all the drafts from all the GMs over time you are going to find that more players are picked in positions that are positions of need. I think that is because need is a factor when GMs determine which player is best for their team. A team that just lost its top 3 WRs to free agency but just signed the two best CBs is probably going to have a few WRs rated a bit higher than CBs on their list and most likely will draft more WRs than CBs unless a particularly good CB prospect falls. Is that GM drafting BPA or for need? I guess it depends on your definition of BPA.
PackerTraxx
9 years ago
Macbob and Warhawk pretty well summed it up. I think BPA as Ted Thompson does it could be defined as the "BPA for our team all things considered". If player A is rated minutely better than player B and player B is a position of need, take player B. I A is highly better than B, even though it is not a need, I believe Ted Thompson would take B because long term it will be better for the team because the team landscape is always changing with injuries etc. Hence the reason we have A Rod when we had Favre. If this makes sense!!! 🙂
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