Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
9 years ago

You should know Sports Exchange isn't the place to look and 4.46 isn't pedestrian speed. Cobb is pretty fast.

I think you whiffed badly when you tried to trivialize Randall Cobb as the same kind of non descript athlete as Richard freaking Rodgers.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



So opinionated, yet so uniformed!

IMHO, the Exchange is unequivocally the second best place to obtain combine data; the best place is the combine raw data that is not published to the Public to my knowledge.

Using a single 40 time to differentiate between descript and “non descript [sic]” athletes is pure folly. First, I would opine that the difference between a 4.46 and a 4.55, which is less than 1/10 of a second over 40 yards, is not the difference between descript and nondescript athletes; 4.46 is fast, but so is 4.55.

Second, combine 40s don’t necessarily reflect differences in actual football speed. For example:

Combine participants start on their own whim, football players must react to a snap. And post snap, they start/stop/lunge/reach/disengage/hop/twist/karate-chop/spin/stumble after getting whacked/ in reaction to what other players are doing. Differences amongst player’s ability to maintain or reacquire speed in reaction to various football field stimuli are not reflected in differences in Combine 40s.

Players possess varying degrees of indecision related to how well they know their assignments, which will affect the time it takes for them to realize they need to get to a certain spot on the field and then actually get there. Combine 40s fail to reflect the relative differences in this type of “speed” that occurs between a well prepared and a lesser prepared player.

Typically, players that possess greater track [and field] acuity will fare relatively better in their Combine 40s; however, this difference will be erased once both players step on the field.

Combine participants don’t wear gear, which when worn slows everyone down; but it slows some relatively more than others. This difference is not reflecting in combine 40s.

Third, if after this it is still believed quoting a 40 time to show this player or that player is 1/10 or 1/20s faster or slower OVER 40 YARDS is worth anyone’s time; it is important to know what the number actually means. Combine 40s are not handed to Goodell from some nondescript burning bush resting on Mt Sinai; they are the byproduct of various vagaries that must be understood to properly place a 40 time in appropriate context, to wit:

Combine participants run two 40s and each of those 40s are timed by two handheld stopwatches and one is “electronically timed.” In other words each combine participant has SIX 40 TIMES; SIX! Reports to NFL teams show all six times; but typically various sites only publish one. We must ask ourselves: what does this single time represent? The average of six? The fastest? The median time? The high/low tossed and remaining averaged? High/low tossed and median of remaining? The fastest electronic time? The average of electronic times? Who the heck knows?

I always quote 40 times from the Exchange because I know what I’m quoting and I like the number they use: “[i]n deference to the players, NFLDraftScout.com uses the best verifiable — or listed — time from the combine unless it is conspicuously skewed from the other times, which happens when a hand timer has an itchy trigger finger on the stopwatch.”

Some think “electronic” times are infallible, which they are not! First, the “electronic timer” is started by the hand of a man and, thus subject to human error; and second the system can be “gamed.” When watching an Olympic sprint event you’ll see the participants running with shoulders back and sticking their chest out to hit the tape at the finish line. However, the fastest way would be to reach out and grab the tape w/ their hand [not allowed]. At the combine the “electronic” clock stops when any part of body breaks the beam that is set at about waist high. The well trained combine 40 runner will try to time his finish with his knee fully extended from body so the knee breaks beam before body crosses line and/or he will have his fingers fully extended and hands extended as far away from body as possible at the height of the beam so the tip of his fingers breaks beam in advance of his body. Of course, a time can be significantly improved if the clock stops at 39.5 yards. And under the finger extended scenario the shorter player has a slight advantage over the taller. Some experienced track runners are disadvantaged as their muscle memory has then extend their chests, which will not result in the fastest time.

At any rate; the Exchange says Cobb’s fastest verifiable time that was not the product of a twitchy finger was 4.55! This is the time that best represents his actual 40 for whatever this is worth. Not sure why anyone to pass off a 40 time as the be all end all of what a player is, especially a 40 time that is an aberration, a fiction, the result of a scout hitting a watch too fast; to assert Cobb is fast though in 4 years we’ve never seen him run away from anyone and belittle the Exchange to boot.
buckeyepackfan
9 years ago
In other words:

There is combine speed.
Players train in a certain way to impress at the combines and pro days.
There is football speed.
The thing That really counts once the players hit the field.

I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
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