Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
9 years ago

You should know Sports Exchange isn't the place to look and 4.46 isn't pedestrian speed. Cobb is pretty fast.

I think you whiffed badly when you tried to trivialize Randall Cobb as the same kind of non descript athlete as Richard freaking Rodgers.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



So opinionated, yet so uniformed!

IMHO, the Exchange is unequivocally the second best place to obtain combine data; the best place is the combine raw data that is not published to the Public to my knowledge.

Using a single 40 time to differentiate between descript and “non descript [sic]” athletes is pure folly. First, I would opine that the difference between a 4.46 and a 4.55, which is less than 1/10 of a second over 40 yards, is not the difference between descript and nondescript athletes; 4.46 is fast, but so is 4.55.

Second, combine 40s don’t necessarily reflect differences in actual football speed. For example:

Combine participants start on their own whim, football players must react to a snap. And post snap, they start/stop/lunge/reach/disengage/hop/twist/karate-chop/spin/stumble after getting whacked/ in reaction to what other players are doing. Differences amongst player’s ability to maintain or reacquire speed in reaction to various football field stimuli are not reflected in differences in Combine 40s.

Players possess varying degrees of indecision related to how well they know their assignments, which will affect the time it takes for them to realize they need to get to a certain spot on the field and then actually get there. Combine 40s fail to reflect the relative differences in this type of “speed” that occurs between a well prepared and a lesser prepared player.

Typically, players that possess greater track [and field] acuity will fare relatively better in their Combine 40s; however, this difference will be erased once both players step on the field.

Combine participants don’t wear gear, which when worn slows everyone down; but it slows some relatively more than others. This difference is not reflecting in combine 40s.

Third, if after this it is still believed quoting a 40 time to show this player or that player is 1/10 or 1/20s faster or slower OVER 40 YARDS is worth anyone’s time; it is important to know what the number actually means. Combine 40s are not handed to Goodell from some nondescript burning bush resting on Mt Sinai; they are the byproduct of various vagaries that must be understood to properly place a 40 time in appropriate context, to wit:

Combine participants run two 40s and each of those 40s are timed by two handheld stopwatches and one is “electronically timed.” In other words each combine participant has SIX 40 TIMES; SIX! Reports to NFL teams show all six times; but typically various sites only publish one. We must ask ourselves: what does this single time represent? The average of six? The fastest? The median time? The high/low tossed and remaining averaged? High/low tossed and median of remaining? The fastest electronic time? The average of electronic times? Who the heck knows?

I always quote 40 times from the Exchange because I know what I’m quoting and I like the number they use: “[i]n deference to the players, NFLDraftScout.com uses the best verifiable — or listed — time from the combine unless it is conspicuously skewed from the other times, which happens when a hand timer has an itchy trigger finger on the stopwatch.”

Some think “electronic” times are infallible, which they are not! First, the “electronic timer” is started by the hand of a man and, thus subject to human error; and second the system can be “gamed.” When watching an Olympic sprint event you’ll see the participants running with shoulders back and sticking their chest out to hit the tape at the finish line. However, the fastest way would be to reach out and grab the tape w/ their hand [not allowed]. At the combine the “electronic” clock stops when any part of body breaks the beam that is set at about waist high. The well trained combine 40 runner will try to time his finish with his knee fully extended from body so the knee breaks beam before body crosses line and/or he will have his fingers fully extended and hands extended as far away from body as possible at the height of the beam so the tip of his fingers breaks beam in advance of his body. Of course, a time can be significantly improved if the clock stops at 39.5 yards. And under the finger extended scenario the shorter player has a slight advantage over the taller. Some experienced track runners are disadvantaged as their muscle memory has then extend their chests, which will not result in the fastest time.

At any rate; the Exchange says Cobb’s fastest verifiable time that was not the product of a twitchy finger was 4.55! This is the time that best represents his actual 40 for whatever this is worth. Not sure why anyone to pass off a 40 time as the be all end all of what a player is, especially a 40 time that is an aberration, a fiction, the result of a scout hitting a watch too fast; to assert Cobb is fast though in 4 years we’ve never seen him run away from anyone and belittle the Exchange to boot.
buckeyepackfan
9 years ago
In other words:

There is combine speed.
Players train in a certain way to impress at the combines and pro days.
There is football speed.
The thing That really counts once the players hit the field.

I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (1h) : No Doubs could be issue Thursday
Mucky Tundra (5h) : Bears. Santos. Blocked FG
Zero2Cool (16h) : Bears. Vikings. OT
Mucky Tundra (16h) : Thems the breaks I guess
Mucky Tundra (16h) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch
Zero2Cool (17h) : Packers inactives vs 49ers: • CB Jaire Alexander • S Kitan Oladapo • LB Edgerrin Cooper • OL Jacob Monk
TheKanataThrilla (19h) : Aaron Jones with a costly red zone fumble
Zero2Cool (20h) : When we trade Malik for a 1st rounder, we'll need a new QB2.
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
beast (23-Nov) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

18h / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

20h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

22-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

19-Nov / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.