You're back? I guess my "plate of shit" analagy was spot on.

This is not *just* a sports forum. It is a community of individuals that associate in a variety of different and overlapping ways. Virtually all are Packer fans, and so we all hang out in the church that serves Packers food (i.e., the first forum in the forum list). Some are more into the NFL in general than others, so they regularly spend time in the sports bar that shows all the games ("Across the NFL"). Some like to mix it up with bare knuckles from time to time and hang out on the wrong side of the tracks ("The Back Alley"). And like the usual American community, we have a lot of miscellaneous and overlapping associations of common interest and common boredom ("Random Babble"). Because some of us community members take our associations in political and/or religious form, you're going to see us exercising those associations sometimes in the public library (Random Babble) and sometimes in the roughest bar in town (Back Alley).

But if you just want sports and nothing but, I'd recommend just the Packers and NFL forums here and the library and/or the biker bar. Every small town has lots of people who do both, and they're still considered part of the town. Upstanding citizens even.

I suppose if you think both library and biker bar are still too politicized or religiousized, I'm pretty sure there's still the other Packer forum that some of us came here from out there that doesn't tolerate either, but still has a lot of sports talk. (I think PC is still around; anyone been there recently?)

Me, that's why I left there and came here and, eventually, stopped visiting that other Packer town even though I liked several of the people there. For me, a town without librarians and bikers and preachers and low-life scum is a pretty boring place to be.

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Oh, yes, and I hope you haven't left, Smokey. I haven't been here much the last couple weeks, and work is such that I'm going to take some days/weeks to get caught up on everything. But I for one, have enjoyed your comments in several of the forums here (er, is RB a forum or a subforum, Kevin, what *is* the proper nomenclature?), sports and otherwise.

Even if I do probably disagree with you in at least as many ways as I agree with you (agree on value of good food and disagree with you on the role of regulation in American society, e.g.) But I disagree with everyone here on one or more important issues. For example, I:

Agree with dfosterf about the Marines and disagree with him on the value of voting NOTA.
Agree with texaspackerbacker about Obama but disagree with him on empire and on Keynesian economics.
Agree with Pack3Z on most things but disagree with him on the value of political civility.
Agree with IronMan on Eric Holder but disagree with him on the value of skipping work from time to time.
Agree with DakotaT on most of his criticisms of big business, but not on his explanations of the recession of 2007-2009.
Agree on Zero2Cool on almost all of what he does with respect to the site, but not with his worries about Dakota's ad hominem attacks or texaspackerbacker's political incorrectness.
Agree with everyone about the superiority of Green and Gold to Purple and White, Powder Blue and White, and Black and White, but disagree with almost everyone about the adequacy of the Packer OL after Josh Sitton.

I hope you stay, Smokey. But if you feel the need to take an extended vacation, feel free. I haven't yet (the last 2-3 weeks are about as close as I've come), but several others have. Some of our best community members are currently taking one. I for one hope you come back, just as I hope Paul and Rourke and Julie eventually make their ways back here again.

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You as a duo. Don't go putting all the blame on him now. The rest can't be bothered anymore, I reckon. But I'm not here to get this one kicked to the back alley.

I'm not well enough into American politics that I could possibly have a debate on this with a guy like Wade. I do know that having just two choices on political party's leaves a lot to be desired.

Especially if you have a system that uses the senate the way you do. It's either full power for the president or childish blocking of pretty much everything.

I'm not saying it's better here, per say, but having the 150 seat house of representatives split up between 14 parties does make for more voices to be heared and taken into account. It also makes for laws that the senate has little reason to block, most of the time, because everyone's had his say.

Then again, I can see how this doesn't look like a favorable system to everybody. Especially Americans. We're absolutely obsessed by pleasing everyone to a certain extent when it comes to this. We made a word for it, "poldermodel". Can't think of a possible English translation for it.

Regarding your first paragraph, Rockmolder, I haven't officially heard, but it certainly does seem that our resident "low-life scum" as Wade so eloquently put it, has been booted out. You are, however, showing your ignorance if you equate me with him. As I have stated several times, I have been nothing but civil, even kind to you and others on your side of the spectrum, no matter how wrongheaded your views may be. My "political incorrectness" as Wade also eloquently characterizes it, is something I am EXTREMELY proud of - NOT falling for the DISEASE of political correctness that afflicts so many in and outside of this forum. Simple obvious observation of reality supports the concept that certain groups and individuals - which I won't name here, but which I repeatedly point out in the Back Alley - display blatant EVIL the likes of which could ruin all that is good and wonderful of life not only here, but in your part of the world also. Security, Freedom, and Prosperity - a.k.a. LIFE, LIBERTY, and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS - are precious to me, as well as to any intelligent, civil, and caring person, and if you can't see that all of those are severely under attack from the evil forces which we both know I am talking about, then you need to wake up and smell the roses, and that includes the vast majority of that group that sympathizes with the actual evil doers.

The rest of your post, apparently comparing European style multiple party politics with the American style two party system is certainly an aspect worth discussing. You talked about having those diverse voices being heard in your country; Well, I would suggest that we have just as a diverse bunch of voices heard here - both within the two parties and in society in general - including places like this forum. The advantage of the two party system, however, is STABILITY. I can remember growing up, hearing about the huge problems in France and Italy over political stalemate and inevitable termination of the government, etc. - which seemed to be the rule rather than the exception in multi-party systems.

I don't doubt that in the present era, life is fine in your part of the world also, but what you seem to stubbornly refuse to acknowledge is that the good life exists in Europe because of the American umbrella of security - which prevented your part of the world from succumbing to Soviet Communism, and which nowadays protects you from the obvious evil force trying to end western civilization and turn the world into a new dark age.

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The best part about today is tomorrow we should get Smokey back!

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just in time for bare week deux. [rockon]

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Well.......someone that just started coming here and thinks THEY know how to run this site better.........I won't say what I'm thinking about that situation.

As far as voting........I would jump party lines if I ever found a candidate whose views I felt were more along what I think.
So far, in all my years of voting, that hasn't happened.

Let's face it........in today's politics, the only choices there are, are the "lesser of two evils".
This nation has sliden so far to the left, that it will probably slide off into the ocean.

It saddens me.

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I applauded you for your first paragraph, Cheesey. Some folks in here are just too shallow thinkers to handle issues of real substance. Maybe they should go back and watch the movie "Sum of All Fears". It puts things into perspective pretty well.

As for the rest of your post, all I can say is "don't worry, be happy". In most political races, it really is a matter of good versus evil, and in today's election, GOOD is about to take a giant step forward.

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well we got to vote for 3 different seats and that was it. 2 State Reps and Governor.

Well I went with 2 republicans and 1 democrat. The reason I went with the democrat is because he backed the coal industry and that is alot of peoples lives out here. I went republican hoping they can get the control in DC and go after the asshole in charge. Also the republicans dn't want my guns like the feel sorry for everyone democrats.

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