Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
10 years ago
Music thread got me thinking. Any of you play poker (or other traditional card games).

I grew up playing a game called "dirty clubs" (a variation on euchre, but more fun, IMO) and shmear (sp?). Wanted to play poker, but was limited since my mother could never get over the experience of my father losing all his pay on the ship back from Europe after World War II. (I always wondered if he lost it to Dick Nixon, who apparently was a serious card sharp and more or less coming back from Europe at the same time.)

Played poker on and off from college to grad school, but eventually the list of people I played with died off to nothing. Got busy and missed the main hold-em craze almost completely. Got back in a couple years ago, but still struggling to find games.

Will play just about any game, but:

(i) don't want silly-ass wild-card games or prefer not having ones with weird names like "Chicago" and "Crazy Pineapple").
(ii) Getting much better at NLHE, and slowly better at Omaha, but still would rather play a traditional game without common cards like stud or draw.
(iii) Hi/lo split games have become a lot more fun as I've practiced more.
(iv) I don't care what Vegas casinos spread or don't spread. I don't care that "everyone" (including me) plays NLHE. Seven-card stud, and limit stud in particular, is still *the* game of poker, IMO. And always will be. I currently will travel a 100 miles or a bit more to play NLHE or PLO; but I'd travel twice that if I could find a limit stud game. More if I have a weekend or longer off.

/end rant

I know Foster's wife unit (or was it a preceding wife unit, Dave?) is a really good NLHE player. (Of course, Harrisburg is a bit far for me to go.)

Anyone else into the game?
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago
What, pray tell, is NHLE - or PLO for that matter (other than a terrorist organization)? I checked Yahoo Search, and it wasn't there.

I watched the family poker games from the time I was old enough to know what was going on. When I was 6, my mother went to the kitchen to fix refreshments, and I first got to play her hand. Remember "deuces and jacks, man with the ax, pair of sevens wins"? My first hand ever, I had five queens and got beat by my uncle's pair of sevens. I almost always won. When I was in the army, I wangled an invite to the company NCOs' weekly all night game. The first time, I had crazy good luck and I won $86. The second week, they were hoping I would bet wild and they would get their money back. I had generally poor cards, but I played it close to the vest and still won about $5. They never invited me back hahaha. When I got married, somehow the old adage, "Lucky at love/Unlucky at cards" came true. Most of the times I played, I lost. I've played Texas Hold 'Em a few times - just family and small stakes. Mostly the kids and grandkids were into board games more than cards, though - and now it's all electronic stuff.

Growing up, I also played a lot of Euchre, Five Hundred, Dirty Clubs, and my favorite, Sheepshead (Shafskopf), also Cribbage. When I got to Texas, though, everybody played Spades. Before I got into writing in forums, one of my main fun activities was playing in Yahoo games. I maxxed out several IDs each in Euchre and Spades, not to mention Literati. I still go back there occasionally, but arguing with Dakota, etc. in here and a few other "evil assholes" in other forums is more stimulating to my need for competition beyond physical sports.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
10 years ago

What, pray tell, is NHLE - or PLO for that matter (other than a terrorist organization)? I checked Yahoo Search, and it wasn't there.

I watched the family poker games from the time I was old enough to know what was going on. When I was 6, my mother went to the kitchen to fix refreshments, and I first got to play her hand. Remember "deuces and jacks, man with the ax, pair of sevens wins"? My first hand ever, I had five queens and got beat by my uncle's pair of sevens. I almost always won. When I was in the army, I wangled an invite to the company NCOs' weekly all night game. The first time, I had crazy good luck and I won $86. The second week, they were hoping I would bet wild and they would get their money back. I had generally poor cards, but I played it close to the vest and still won about $5. They never invited me back hahaha. When I got married, somehow the old adage, "Lucky at love/Unlucky at cards" came true. Most of the times I played, I lost. I've played Texas Hold 'Em a few times - just family and small stakes. Mostly the kids and grandkids were into board games more than cards, though - and now it's all electronic stuff.

Growing up, I also played a lot of Euchre, Five Hundred, Dirty Clubs, and my favorite, Sheepshead (Shafskopf), also Cribbage. When I got to Texas, though, everybody played Spades. Before I got into writing in forums, one of my main fun activities was playing in Yahoo games. I maxxed out several IDs each in Euchre and Spades, not to mention Literati. I still go back there occasionally, but arguing with Dakota, etc. in here and a few other "evil a$holes" in other forums is more stimulating to my need for competition beyond physical sports.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



NLHE = "no limit hold'em". The variety that supposedly comes out of Texas.
PLO= Pot Limit Omaha. Texas hold-em involves being dealt two cards and then combining them with three of the five common cards on the board that make the best poker hand. Omaha, on the other hand has each person dealt four private cards; you then use any two of those four cards with three from the common board to make the best hand. (In hi-lo variant of PLO, you use any two to make a hi hand and, if possible, any two (usually not the same) to make a low hand. Effectively, this means you're trying to weigh the relative strength of what other people might be able to put together using the same common cards and cards you don't have in your hand, and compare those possibilities to the six different hands you can put together. In Omaha games, you generally want to get better hands than in most other poker games: a straight or better (sometimes 3 of a kind, but that's risky) for high, an ace and a four or lower for low. I still haven't figured out how you successfully bluff in Omaha.

I'm a grinding probabilities player. That's a big part of why I think Stud the better game compared to the common-card games. They're more about luck and manipulating the other players. Bullying with the deep stack is easier to pull off, for example. Stud, on the other hand, and particularly the fixed limit games, are more about being better at reading the probabilities of cards and knowing the likelihood of one hand being able to beat the other. To me, Texas hold-em and Omaha are too much about gambling and too little about skill.

If I was at the top levels I might disagree, since after you've played a 50,000 hands or so, you and everyone else like you can do the probabs instantly, and grinding becomes grindingly boring. But I'm not and can't imagine being that good. But I am good enough with numbers that, I can do more with the cards exposed in a hand like stud and reduce the impact of the "luck of the deal" more. But in a game where even at the end of a hand you know the location of at most 9 cards (and in Texas hold-em, 7), and where someone with the bigger pile can threaten your entire stack at any point by simply going "all in" or "betting the pot"? That's too much about luck to my mind.

Of course, it may just be that I'm not any good. Given the amount that I've lost when I've played Omaha for money, that may be so. Even with only $1 and $2 blinds, the pot-limit option means you're going to get a fair number of hundred buck or more-sized pots in one evening. I'm getting better, but I still take a bankroll of $400 to one of those games. And it only takes one screw up, or one of many low-probability cards coming up, to lose a real big chunk of that; and I play with guys who don't pot it aggressively.

Which is why the gambling-loving players go for it: the possible "action" in either Texas or Omaha varieties can be huge. Play $1/$2 limit stud at a pretty average level, and $75-$100 bucks is the most extreme you are going to encounter for a 4-6 hour session; and if you play a lot, the average return/loss per session is going to be +/- $25-30. Hold-em and Omaha -- you can get amazingly good pocket cards (paired aces in hold-em; four consecutive straight cards in Omaha), and you can correctly bet, and lose with dismayingly high frequency, 10 times that amount in ten minutes. Dealing myself lots of hands, and playing online for play money, I'm more confident that I'm not going to lose that entire $400. But I still take that amount because there is a substantially large probability that I'm going to lose a $100-$200 stake in the first hour, regardless of how well I play. And when you drive 2 hours to the game, no matter how much you like the group you play with, you don't want to be done in under an hour.

PLO (and Texas holdem to a lesser extent) are, IMO, absolutely crazy games in my opinion. Even if I had a game closer, I can at most take that kind of risk every couple of months, and I only do it because the game in question runs a NLHE tournament first and the most I can lose is $25.

Limit stud, though, I'd be reasonably confident in playing even a $10-20/table without losing $200-bucks or more in a session, and I haven't sat in on a money game in a *long* time.

In one of the online free games I frequent, one of the chat macros you can use to "psych out" (rofl) your opponents will bring up a bubble that says "Afraid to gamble?" To which I sometimes reply, "Yes. I prefer to get the rest of you to do the gambling." Poker has unavoidable gambling/luck components to it. In statistical jargon, the standard deviation of the return is high. But a good poker game, IMO, is one where your level of mental skills can take a lot of that luck out of the equation. And if you are playing against people who think it is gambling involving no more skill than craps or a slot machine, your odds of being the one *not* going home tapped out increase substantially.

It's not well known, but former President Nixon paid for his law school using funds raised by playing poker. But he didn't do it by being *lucky*.



And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Users browsing this topic
    Fan Shout
    dfosterf (11-Jun) : There will be a mini camp practice Thursday.
    Zero2Cool (11-Jun) : He's been sporting a ring for a while now. It's probably Madonna.
    Martha Careful (10-Jun) : We only do the tea before whoopee, it relaxes me.
    wpr (10-Jun) : That's awesome Martha.
    Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : How's the ayahuasca tea he makes, Martha?
    Martha Careful (10-Jun) : Turns out he like older women
    Martha Careful (10-Jun) : I wasn't supposed to say anything, but yes the word is out and we are happy 😂😂😂
    Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : I might be late on this but Aaron Rodgers is now married
    Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : Well he can always ask his brother for pointers
    Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : Bo Melton taking some reps at CB as well as WR
    Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : key transactions coming today at 3pm that will consume more cap in 2025
    Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jaire played in just 34 of a possible 68 games since the start of the 2021 season
    Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : reported, but not expected to practice
    Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jenkins has REPORTED for mandatory camp
    Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : I really thought he'd play for Packers.
    buckeyepackfan (9-Jun) : Packers releasing Jaire Alexander.
    Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : (Context: he wants his defense to create turnovers)
    Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : Giants DC Shane Bowen tells players to “be a damn pirate."
    dfosterf (6-Jun) : Semper fi !
    Cheesey (6-Jun) : This is why I have so much respect for those that have gone through battles
    Cheesey (6-Jun) : I can't even imagine what that would have been like
    wpr (6-Jun) : "Come on, you sons of bitches. Do you want to live forever?"
    wpr (6-Jun) : Facing a line of machine guns 2 time medal of Honor recipient, First Sergeant Dan Daly told his men,
    wpr (6-Jun) : Another detachment went into the Belleau Wood.
    wpr (6-Jun) : On the 6th the Marines took Hill 142 but suffered terrible losses.
    wpr (6-Jun) : It’s time to remember dfoster’s Marine brothers in Belleau Wood. The battle went on from June 1-26. Nearly 10,000 casualties.
    packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : Nick Collins and Morgan Burnett have signed with the PACK
    packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : he won't be wearing #12, maybe he will wear number two
    packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : He will fail this season, should have retired
    Mucky Tundra (5-Jun) : Thus the cycle of Hall of Fame Packer QBs going to the Jets and then the Vikings is broken
    bboystyle (5-Jun) : Rodgers to steelers on 1 year contract
    Zero2Cool (5-Jun) : It's the cycle of civilizations. Get lazier, lazier, softer, softer and vanish.
    Martha Careful (5-Jun) : great point. every aspect of society, including art, culture and sports has degraded.
    dfosterf (4-Jun) : Green Bay sweep meant something to society about stopping pure excellence. We have the tush push now
    dfosterf (4-Jun) : We old Martha.
    Martha Careful (4-Jun) : *front four
    Martha Careful (4-Jun) : Re frout four, I wish we had some Green "People Eaters" or a fearsome foursome
    dfosterf (4-Jun) : *directions*
    dfosterf (4-Jun) : Just don't ask him for driving direct
    dfosterf (4-Jun) : Jim Marshall was an all-time great DE for the Purple People Eaters. Didn't like him. That's a compliment. RIP
    Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : ooppppss
    Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : “Kenny Clark played all of last season hurt by the way and got surgery to fix it in January”
    Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood How much did the injury affect him last fall? “A lot.”
    Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood Kenny Clark said he had foot surgery in January. Injured his foot in opener against Eagles and played through it all year.
    Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : Golden is wearing guardian cap again. I bet he plays with it on too.
    Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : All the stuff I'm reading from Lions fans are pointing at his toe; he more or less has permanent turf toe in one of his big toes
    dfosterf (3-Jun) : Kenny played through it, and a shame he gets little credit for that, imo
    dfosterf (3-Jun) : Big men. I hope it's not the undoing of Kenny Clark
    dfosterf (3-Jun) : Probably his toe. Pretty much a great center. Toe injuries are brutal to bigen
    Mucky Tundra (2-Jun) : Lions All-Pro C Frank Ragnow retires
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2025 Packers Schedule
    Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
    LIONS
    Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
    COMMANDERS
    Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
    Browns
    Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
    Cowboys
    Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
    BENGALS
    Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
    Cardinals
    Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
    Steelers
    Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
    PANTHERS
    Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
    EAGLES
    Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
    Giants
    Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
    Lions
    Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
    BEARS
    Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
    Broncos
    Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
    Bears
    Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
    RAVENS
    Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
    Vikings
    Recent Topics
    2h / Community Welcome! / wpr

    9h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Adam

    13h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    23h / Random Babble / Martha Careful

    12-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    12-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    12-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    11-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    10-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

    10-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    7-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    6-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    1-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.