nerdmann
10 years ago

Even pass coverage for a LB is more about his reaction time and reading the QB and the play than it is about 40 time. How often is a ILB running down the seam on a super fast TE with no safety help? Maybe 1 or 2 times a season? Most of ILB coverage is inside the hash marks or running out to the flat on a RB. Speed helps with that stuff but I really wouldn't say it's the main thing you look for.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



If a dude is slow, it's probably gonna happen to him more often than it would to a fast dude. But the frozen tundra tends to slow people down a bit, so that mitigates the need for speed to some degree.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
play2win
10 years ago

Speed is very important without question. However, the metrics employed by the NFL to measure it oftentimes are meaningless.

Borland's 40 time was 4.83...up toward DE territory. Clay Matthews ran 4.62

The 3 cone times 7.18 for Borland and 6.90 for Clay.

One guy will be inside the other needs to blow off the edge.

These measurements are one moment in time without football pads on. Plus, they're chasing air, not football players. The NFL is littered with stories of guys who just weren't fast enough who had great NFL careers.

I think part of the reason Alex Smith was drafted over Aaron Rodgers was the 3 cone time. Aaron was 7.39 to Smith's 6.82... that is more than a half second difference. Does it appear that Alex Smith is that much more elusive in the pocket? A half second is incredibly substantial. Borland is almost 2 hundredths of second slower than Clay over 40 yards, and almost 2 hundredths of a second slower on 3 cone.

Many of these speed projects don't have anywhere near the instincts. How many hundredths of a second does that cost them? NFL doesn't measure for that. It seems clear that a guy like Borland has all world instincts and pedestrian speed. The combo can work if instincts are truly elite. If his instincts weren't incredible then his 4.83 is really going to show itself.

Smart, instinctive and sold out work for me vs. dumb, confused, and football doesn't really matter but they can run like a deer.

Ultimately, like you wish, it would be best to find a guy who can run... and has more height and longer arms. Zach Thomas would tell you not to be so worried.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



uffda, you hit on something here that I feel is really important, and I've been wanting to address.

I love a player with speed. Even more if he has the heightened instincts to play his position.

I hate 40 times. Especially in discussing a player and his level of speed.

Why the hell doesn't the NFL run all 40 times on grass with full gear on?

That could drastically change a player's fortunes. Running on a track in shorts is, to me, absolutely meaningless.

How do we know one player with a blazing 40 isn't actually slower than another in a "Gear On" 40?

I think I should present this to the NFL: the GO 40...
uffda udfa
10 years ago
I'm with you on wearing full pads. Not sure about having them outside on grass. I'd want to know what their full potential is. If I'm a dome team, I love it the way it is. You just know some guys are going to fly with the equipment on and off and some who'll fly with it off but are hindered, substantially, with it on.

It's also one moment in time. Yes, they run it more than once, but it's day specific...hard telling if a guy is sore that day, or slept well, etc. All those things factor.

Speed is incredibly important and I talk about 40 time so much Dakota thinks I'm pulling the goalie over here but it is a measure that should be weighed a fair amount. If it was just 40 then it wouldn't be that helpful but they break it down into splits. IE:Abby is faster than Adams in the 40 and also in the 10 yard split which is important. WR isn't always running 40 yards, in fact, rarely, but he'll run 10 quite often.

Give me a guy like my new buddy, LaDarius Perkins. Instincts and feel for the game plus speed. Love that.


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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


play2win
10 years ago
They should have Grass GO 40s and Turf GO 40s. Full gear, not just pads. Only way to really know how fast they will be on the field of play. Would eliminate a lot of guessing, and would make for a far more accurate, applicable measurable.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago
GB ought to make the most of their home field advantage. Let the grass grow long. REAL LONG.

For years the Cubs had the infield grass at Wrigley longer than most teams. It slowed down ground balls that players hit and allowed their older, slower infielders to get to the ball instead of watching it roll into the outfield.

If the grass in Lambeau was 4 inches tall the Packer DBs would have no trouble keeping up with the fleet WRs around the league.
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Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (6h) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
beast (8h) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
packerfanoutwest (14h) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
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