texaspackerbacker
11 years ago

No the economic crisis at the end of the Bush fiasco is on your type of people. Do we blame the recipients of the Ninja loans, or do we blame the people who made the money off of those loans? In these situations you blame the people who took the money and ran, just like the vultures on Wall Street who get their cut even if the stocks lose value. But in the minds of people like you, that's just all fine and good! Legal, I guess technically - ethical, a resounding hell no. But you somehow blame the leftists instead of the douchebag right wingers with all of their failed economic philosophies: huge tax cuts for the wealthy and then they'll share it with the rest of the masses. 🙄 How 30 years of that was allowed to happen ranks right up there with the devil convincing the world he doesn't exist.


Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Well, you just flunked both Econ 101 and Remedial Reading.

If you had read good, you would see, the poor fools who never shoulda got mortgages in the first place, and then defaulted, are not to be blamed for taking advantage of what was essentially a government mandated handout. (the only one I've heard who blames people for accepting government handouts is YOU hahaha). Likewise, the lenders cannot be blamed for making the bad loans - they would have been prosecuted for discrimination if they refused to make those loans. The blame goes to the idiots/socialists who came up with that stupid program in the first place - YOUR people - how could you possibly disagree?

You didn't even come close to explaining HOW you think Wall Street deregulation or those "vultures" had anything whatsoever to do with the "fiasco" brought on partially by Clintonomics, Democrat control of Congress, and the economic hit of 9/11, but mainly by the housing market crash.

I guess 1 outta 3 is pretty good for you, though. At least you got the devil thing right.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
DakotaT
11 years ago
No Texas, the guys that walked away with the money are the people to blame. You can polish up turds all you want, but at the end of the day, you point the finger at the thieves. What upsets me are the amount of taxpaying Americans such as yourself who just say "oh that's how it is", we can't do anything about it. And the thieves go unprosecuted and laugh as they spend their ill gotten wealth. America, what a country, there is no honor left here anymore so spare me all that patriotic crap you seem to always be so proud of.
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texaspackerbacker
11 years ago

No Texas, the guys that walked away with the money are the people to blame. You can polish up turds all you want, but at the end of the day, you point the finger at the thieves. What upsets me are the amount of taxpaying Americans such as yourself who just say "oh that's how it is", we can't do anything about it. And the thieves go unprosecuted and laugh as they spend their ill gotten wealth. America, what a country, there is no honor left here anymore so spare me all that patriotic crap you seem to always be so proud of.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



You keep saying that, but you fail to say, WHAT money? Stolen by WHOM? And HOW did they "steal" it?

You have a bunch of poor unqualified people who got houses with mortgages they never should have been allowed to get. They lived there for a while, got way behind on payments - usually 7-9 months before finally being foreclosed. You have the mortgage companies - who you seem to be saying benefited - that put up a big lump sum of money for which they failed to receive payments. They ended up with houses mostly trashed out and severely lower in value because of the market crash. What exactly did THEY steal? You have these big corporations like A.I.G. that bought bundles of these mortgages that were defaulted on, and took a beating that way. Did they steal anything? You have Obama's housing czar and a couple of others who really cleaned up on kickbacks or some kind of corruption, but somehow I doubt THEY are the "thieves" you are referring to.

Patriotic crap? Hell Yeah. Through it all, America is still on top of the world. We basically ALL have great lives, and it will continue as long as YOUR kind of people are kept in check even a little bit from fucking things up.


Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
DakotaT
11 years ago

You keep saying that, but you fail to say, WHAT money? Stolen by WHOM? And HOW did they "steal" it?

You have a bunch of poor unqualified people who got houses with mortgages they never should have been allowed to get. They lived there for a while, got way behind on payments - usually 7-9 months before finally being foreclosed. You have the mortgage companies - who you seem to be saying benefited - that put up a big lump sum of money for which they failed to receive payments. They ended up with houses mostly trashed out and severely lower in value because of the market crash. What exactly did THEY steal? You have these big corporations like A.I.G. that bought bundles of these mortgages that were defaulted on, and took a beating that way. Did they steal anything? You have Obama's housing czar and a couple of others who really cleaned up on kickbacks or some kind of corruption, but somehow I doubt THEY are the "thieves" you are referring to.

Patriotic crap? Hell Yeah. Through it all, America is still on top of the world. We basically ALL have great lives, and it will continue as long as YOUR kind of people are kept in check even a little bit from fucking things up.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Haven't you ever taken out a mortgage? Weren't there some incredible costs in the loan process? And then if there were new homes being built, there would have had to have been at least 10% paid to the contractor. I would call any loan officer and the bank he/she works for who gives a loan out to a person who could not possibly afford the home, a thief. But that's how I think, that's my ethics. I would also call most of the businessmen in this country who take a product, put a 40% markup on it, and resell it, a thief. But that is how I think. That is not honorable work, and then turn around a pay your employee as little as you have to is not ethical, in my mind! Are we getting a clearer picture, yet? You call them Christian achievers, and I don't see it that way.

And I think you better start wrapping your mind around the concept of a global economy. But thankfully for your old ass on the dole, you'll never have to actually work in it, and maybe I'll continue being a spoiled American for another 20 years too.

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texaspackerbacker
11 years ago

Haven't you ever taken out a mortgage? Weren't there some incredible costs in the loan process? And then if there were new homes being built, there would have had to have been at least 10% paid to the contractor. I would call any loan officer and the bank he/she works for who gives a loan out to a person who could not possibly afford the home, a thief. But that's how I think, that's my ethics. I would also call most of the businessmen in this country who take a product, put a 40% markup on it, and resell it, a thief. But that is how I think. That is not honorable work, and then turn around a pay your employee as little as you have to is not ethical, in my mind! Are we getting a clearer picture, yet? You call them Christian achievers, and I don't see it that way.

And I think you better start wrapping your mind around the concept of a global economy. But thankfully for your old ass on the dole, you'll never have to actually work in it, and maybe I'll continue being a spoiled American for another 20 years too.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Mortgages used to be my business - for 16 years as a real estate agent/broker. Real Estate people live and die by whether or not their buyers get a mortgage or not.

You are displaying a great deal of lack of understanding here. The government program that YOUR people rammed through not only allows, but basically FORCES the lenders to deal with those minorities and poor people you rant and whine about so much - those who in your words "gives a loan out to a person who could not possibly afford the home". That's the essence of the "sub-prime" thing that led to the crisis.

As for your usual line about business in general, not very many businesses are fortunate enough to get a 40% mark up - thanks to the same market forces you hate so much. As I have said many times, the beauty of the capitalist system is that collective individual greed and self interest results in the best economic situation for all. It's the social engineering done by YOUR kind that messes things up.

What's with this global economy thing? YOU are the one always complaining about jobs going overseas, NAFTA, etc. - THAT's the global economy. Every country in the world with an economy based on capitalistic principals is thriving and moving forward. Those anti-American socialist economies which you seem to worship are about the only ones left out of the benefits of the global economy.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
DakotaT
11 years ago
Not Texas, only a small percentage of people in those capitalistic societies are thriving, and you're not one of those in ours. Just another of the unpaid soldiers, who vote for the criminals. And you also need to quit comparing everything to Walmart for markup. I'm talking about the contractor/retailers in this country making money hand over fist and then balk at paying $20 an hour with limited benefits. 40% markup for them is standard.

The check and balance on capitalism is taxes. Unfortunately for all of us little people, the Capitalists own the government and keep giving legalized tax evasion, which is why people are pissed off at the redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the top 5%. It really is that simple - but buffoons keep muddling up the works because you listen to the right wing programming.
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texaspackerbacker
11 years ago

Not Texas, only a small percentage of people in those capitalistic societies are thriving, and you're not one of those in ours. Just another of the unpaid soldiers, who vote for the criminals. And you also need to quit comparing everything to Walmart for markup. I'm talking about the contractor/retailers in this country making money hand over fist and then balk at paying $20 an hour with limited benefits. 40% markup for them is standard.

The check and balance on capitalism is taxes. Unfortunately for all of us little people, the Capitalists own the government and keep giving legalized tax evasion, which is why people are pissed off at the redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the top 5%. It really is that simple - but buffoons keep muddling up the works because you listen to the right wing programming.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Gosh, Dakota, you're off your game today. I read this a few hours ago, but I was a little busy then. Besides, it didn't hurt to let your weak effort sit there unchallenged for a while.

As for those other countries operating on capitalist principals, how many of those countries have you been to in the last decade or two? Which of them did not seem to be thriving - and I mean down to the masses? My count is 5, not counting Canada and Mexico, and they all seemed to be doing fine. For that matter, thanks for your concern hahahaha, but I'm doing fine too - just like virtually everybody else in this country.

You were not real clear about that 40% mark up thing. Are you saying Walmart DOESN'T make that much - which would certainly be correct? Are you saying that more small-time "contractors and retailers" have a bigger profit margin than Walmart? That doesn't sound correct, but who knows. Anyway, the relevant point - about which you show GROSS lack of understanding - is that market forces control what a business can and can't do in terms of profit margin, prices, wages paid, etc. , NOT government intrusion either by taxes, as you fantasize or by regulation. Tax and regulation just tend to screw things up. How in the hell do you expect any company, big or small, to thrive or even survive if they are charging too much for their goods or services? And how do you expect a company to get decent employees if they don't pay the wage the market requires?

They do charge what they need to charge and pay whatever wages they need to charge. As a result, we all have the greatest life of any people in the history of the world. Would you actually say we don't? And the rest of the world, while still way behind us in America - as they should be, are making progress too - those with the sense to do things our way, anyway. It's all good - for everybody except the loons who hate America's success - you know, Dakota, people like you see when you look in the mirror.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
DakotaT
11 years ago

Gosh, Dakota, you're off your game today. I read this a few hours ago, but I was a little busy then. Besides, it didn't hurt to let your weak effort sit there unchallenged for a while.

As for those other countries operating on capitalist principals, how many of those countries have you been to in the last decade or two? Which of them did not seem to be thriving - and I mean down to the masses? My count is 5, not counting Canada and Mexico, and they all seemed to be doing fine. For that matter, thanks for your concern hahahaha, but I'm doing fine too - just like virtually everybody else in this country.

You were not real clear about that 40% mark up thing. Are you saying Walmart DOESN'T make that much - which would certainly be correct? Are you saying that more small-time "contractors and retailers" have a bigger profit margin than Walmart? That doesn't sound correct, but who knows. Anyway, the relevant point - about which you show GROSS lack of understanding - is that market forces control what a business can and can't do in terms of profit margin, prices, wages paid, etc. , NOT government intrusion either by taxes, as you fantasize or by regulation. Tax and regulation just tend to screw things up. How in the hell do you expect any company, big or small, to thrive or even survive if they are charging too much for their goods or services? And how do you expect a company to get decent employees if they don't pay the wage the market requires?

They do charge what they need to charge and pay whatever wages they need to charge. As a result, we all have the greatest life of any people in the history of the world. Would you actually say we don't? And the rest of the world, while still way behind us in America - as they should be, are making progress too - those with the sense to do things our way, anyway. It's all good - for everybody except the loons who hate America's success - you know, Dakota, people like you see when you look in the mirror.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



It's amazing to me the mediocrity you accept as "everyone is doing great". I guess the only benchmark you use is that they have crappy food to eat. You and I live in different universes. I'm going to start being like you and not give a fuck about anybody and just live in my own little bubble. What I do know is that those superheroes of yours, the capitalists, are going to have a lot of explaining to do when they meet the Almighty. And for your information, I live in a booming economy where 40% profit is pretty normal. People have a lot of money around these parts and enjoy spending it. We here in North Dakota actually live the kind of shit you're always imaging in that head of yours.
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texaspackerbacker
11 years ago

It's amazing to me the mediocrity you accept as "everyone is doing great". I guess the only benchmark you use is that they have crappy food to eat. You and I live in different universes. I'm going to start being like you and not give a fuck about anybody and just live in my own little bubble. What I do know is that those superheroes of yours, the capitalists, are going to have a lot of explaining to do when they meet the Almighty. And for your information, I live in a booming economy where 40% profit is pretty normal. People have a lot of money around these parts and enjoy spending it. We here in North Dakota actually live the kind of shit you're always imaging in that head of yours.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Since you apparently haven't been anywhere in the world, it's hard to even illustrate the point, but suffice it to say, several foreign countries I went to 30 or 40 years ago have made great strides toward being Americanized, economically speaking, and the standard of living reflects that.

As for your paradise up there in North Dakota, do you know what you just illustrated? TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS hahahaha. Money can be injected various ways, and in the case of your area, the Almighty blessed you with oil and the technology to frac it. All those small businesses you are talking about with their magnificent 40% mark up could only do that if there were fairly prosperous people to buy what they are selling. Obviously, not all of those people are oil barons. In most cases, the oil money has "trickled down" to them. THAT is the beauty of capitalism, and I think God is just fine with the concept - some adventurous people take a risk of their money or come up with some kind of innovation or maybe just get lucky, and they are rewarded with higher than normal income - unless their gamble doesn't pay off. Those of us just cruising through life basically get what trickles down, and in America/in a capitalist system in general, that's pretty damn good. You can call it mediocrity all you like, but it is mediocrity at a higher level than any other place and time in the history of the world. If that ain't enough, a person can always take a few risks and become one of those capitalists you hate so much. If those econmic "winners" get too selfish, yeah, God will probably slap them down, either in the short term or on Judgment Day, but that's their own business, and basically a non-economic topic. Myself, I just don't see very many successful people who resemble the villains in the Good Samaritan story.

The point is, in this system, the opportunity is there to rise up in class, and the "mediocrity" level is so high that people can enjoy life that way if they choose.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
DakotaT
11 years ago
What you don't understand is the other industry is corporate farming, or more or less socialism. See, North Dakota takes in all this Federal Pork called the Farm Bill and subsidies to farmers that do not need them. We also have 2 Air Force bases when 1 would be sufficient to babysit all the nucs we have in the ground here. Lots of Federal dollars spent in North Dakota. In fact, we are net welfare state.

Trickle down economics is about unethical tax reductions for the wealthy. The part of that equation that never worked was the wealthy sharing of the tax breaks by reinvesting it in America. Instead they send the money to banks in the Caman Islands and Switzerland. At least with welfare to poor people, the money gets redistributed in American communities.

Let's just agree that the hogs at the top are disgusting, despicable human beings who only care about money. And the rest of us just get to keep the table scraps. Some of us disagree with these sorts of things, and other like you accept it. But Capitalism is hardly the utopia you make it out to be because of the imperfect human beings that leach of it.
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