wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago

My point exactly.


Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



no you said draft picks. which they are not.

You know all those "Ted Thompson gems," like Sam Shields, Don Barclay, Frank Zombo, Greg van Roten, etc?

This is what you use late round picks for. Get the remaining guys you don't want to have to compete for. Our staff are masters at this level of the talent pool.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 




we were discussing the 2011 draft. If you want to look at the 5th 6th and 7th rounds fine.

5 141 D.J. Williams
6 179 Caleb Schlauderaff
6 186 D.J. Smith
6 197 Ricky Elmore
7 218 Ryan Taylor
7 233 Lawrence Guy

Only Taylor is on the team. This is nothing for Ted or you to brag about.

House wasn't a first round pick. What do you want from Ted, first round talent all the way through the draft? House is great as a rotational depth player. He's held up well in that capacity, imo. Taylor is too. He was taken late in the draft. He's not a first rounder.

As for Sherrod, any player can go down at any time. We saw that this year with our QB.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



I guess you are willing to grade on a curve. Just being on the team merits a "B" in your book. "B" means above average for the NFL These players are hardly above average. They are not even average by NFL standards. Taylor is a "C". Playing on special teams at best is a "C" player. A starter on offense or defense but not standing out is only a "C" player no matter what round they are selected. Back ups at best are "C" players if you are so kind.
UserPostedImage
nerdmann
10 years ago

no you said draft picks. which they are not.

we were discussing the 2011 draft. If you want to look at the 5th 6th and 7th rounds fine.

5 141 D.J. Williams
6 179 Caleb Schlauderaff
6 186 D.J. Smith
6 197 Ricky Elmore
7 218 Ryan Taylor
7 233 Lawrence Guy

Only Taylor is on the team. This is nothing for Ted or you to brag about.

I guess you are willing to grade on a curve. Just being on the team merits a "B" in your book. "B" means above average for the NFL These players are hardly above average. They are not even average by NFL standards. Taylor is a "C". Playing on special teams at best is a "C" player. A starter on offense or defense but not standing out is only a "C" player no matter what round they are selected. Back ups at best are "C" players if you are so kind.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



1 Wow, you really are dense aren't you. LOL

What I was saying was, Ted and the boys are GREAT at finding these "gem" type players who are still around at the end of the draft. Using late draft picks is a good way to seal the deal on guys over whom you don't want to compete. That way you can lock them in and not try to convince them to come to your team instead of someone else's. But yeah. Shields and those guys weren't drafted. lol. Which is why I used them as examples.

2 Yeah, so only one of those guys are on the team. That's nothing to brag about, right? Except you're missing one thing. All but one of them is still in the league. That means that they are good enough to play in the NFL. Just not good enough for OUR team.

Why penalize Ted because he's already stocked us with guys who can play? Harder to hit on a late draft pick when your team is stocked with talent, then it is when all your players suck.

3 You need to take a midol. Yeah, we got bounced from the playoffs. I understand, you're all pissing yourselves. Get over it. Our biggest problems are fixable.

I'm the first one to criticize this team and its coaches. But Ted isn't the weak link. There are shortcomings on both sides of the ball. Yet we remain competitive, because we have good players. This enables Aaron to stat whore and still be successful. It allows Capers' unit to shit itself and leave guys running uncovered, and still win.

But even though I don't think these problems with Mikes "Polish Football" philosophy and Dom's lack of work ethic are gonna get fixed, I'm not getting all pissy and trying to throw blame around. Let's all take a deep breath and look rationally at the situation.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
10 years ago
PREDICTION: We will win at least 12 games next year.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago
nerdmann I am too tired to argue with you tonight. Maybe tomorrow. I will simply say these are not even average players:

5 141 D.J. Williams
6 179 Caleb Schlauderaff
6 186 D.J. Smith
6 197 Ricky Elmore
7 218 Ryan Taylor
7 233 Lawrence Guy

when you drag in your college free agents, none outside Shields is even worth talking about. This whole thread is about the 2011 draft and you drag in players not in the draft as some sort of proof.
Zombro and Shields was 2010
van Roten and Barclay 2012

Stick to 2011.

UserPostedImage
DakotaT
10 years ago

nerdmann I am too tired to argue with you tonight. Maybe tomorrow. I will simply say these are not even average players:


Originally Posted by: wpr 



You're lucky I'm not busting your chops then, ya old bastard. Yeah, that draft kind of licked ass pretty bad. Realistically you should draft 1 stud player, 3 good role players, and the rest is a crap shoot.

I love it when a guy like Sam Shields succeeds. We should tag his ass and pay him like the budding superstar he is and not because it's the right thing to do, because he's earned it.
UserPostedImage
musccy
10 years ago

nerdmann I am too tired to argue with you tonight. Maybe tomorrow. I will simply say these are not even average players:

5 141 D.J. Williams
6 179 Caleb Schlauderaff
6 186 D.J. Smith
6 197 Ricky Elmore
7 218 Ryan Taylor
7 233 Lawrence Guy

when you drag in your college free agents, none outside Shields is even worth talking about. This whole thread is about the 2011 draft and you drag in players not in the draft as some sort of proof.
Zombro and Shields was 2010
van Roten and Barclay 2012

Stick to 2011.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Even if you didn't technically draft shields, barclay, etc. They were signed days after the draft, if I'm not mistaken so clearly they were evaluated during the process and saying they weren't part of the draft is predominantly a matter of semantics. With that said, I agree, much of the 2011draft class/process sucked for g.b. I don't buy the argument that if they made it in the nfl but not GB that makes it a success. Why draft or sign a player that doesn't fit your team/scheme?
Rockmolder
10 years ago

1. What I was saying was, Ted and the boys are GREAT at finding these "gem" type players who are still around at the end of the draft. Using late draft picks is a good way to seal the deal on guys over whom you don't want to compete. That way you can lock them in and not try to convince them to come to your team instead of someone else's. But yeah. Shields and those guys weren't drafted. lol. Which is why I used them as examples.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



I agree with you on that one. The 6th and 7th rounds, in my eyes, are pretty much for locking up the UDFAs you're targetting. I don't see anything as a reach in those rounds and no position as becoming too crowded. I don't really mind if those guys make the roster, either, if it happens to be that way.

2 Yeah, so only one of those guys are on the team. That's nothing to brag about, right? Except you're missing one thing. All but one of them is still in the league. That means that they are good enough to play in the NFL. Just not good enough for OUR team.

Why penalize Ted because he's already stocked us with guys who can play? Harder to hit on a late draft pick when your team is stocked with talent, then it is when all your players suck.



And that's what I don't like. Everyone on the forum could already see at the point that that draft came around, that we were a deep team. I asume Ted saw that, as well. Of course that doesn't mean you go ahead and trade up to the first three times, but it does mean that you shouldn't keep trading down and stock up on UDFA-like guys. It pretty much leaves you with what we have now. A deep team that can take a lot of injuries and still function, but doesn't have a lot of that top tier talent.

I couldn't care less about Lawrence Guy being on the Chargers' roster. If our team's too deep already for those kind of guys, don't stock up on 6th and 7th rounders.

3 You need to take a midol. Yeah, we got bounced from the playoffs. I understand, you're all pissing yourselves. Get over it. Our biggest problems are fixable.

I'm the first one to criticize this team and its coaches. But Ted isn't the weak link. There are shortcomings on both sides of the ball. Yet we remain competitive, because we have good players. This enables Aaron to stat whore and still be successful. It allows Capers' unit to shit itself and leave guys running uncovered, and still win.

But even though I don't think these problems with Mikes "Polish Football" philosophy and Dom's lack of work ethic are gonna get fixed, I'm not getting all pissy and trying to throw blame around. Let's all take a deep breath and look rationally at the situation.



Calling someone dense and then starting with your whole statwhoring thing sounds rather hypocritical.

How you're up to date on Capers' work ethic is beyond me, as well.

If you feel like this is all Dom's fault, while we have an average D-line, with an average secondary and average linebacking group, I don't know who you'd want here to get instant results. The only playmaker right now is Clay, who's injured half the time, with Shields being near, but just not elite.

I'm not that big a fan of Capers. He always falls off after the first few years on the job, but I can't really blame him for how he's using the talent he has at his disposal right now.

nerdmann
10 years ago


I'm not that big a fan of Capers. He always falls off after the first few years on the job, but I can't really blame him for how he's using the talent he has at his disposal right now.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



Should he try Perry on the right side?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago

Even if you didn't technically draft shields, barclay, etc. They were signed days after the draft, if I'm not mistaken so clearly they were evaluated during the process and saying they weren't part of the draft is predominantly a matter of semantics. With that said, I agree, much of the 2011draft class/process sucked for g.b. I don't buy the argument that if they made it in the nfl but not GB that makes it a success. Why draft or sign a player that doesn't fit your team/scheme?

Originally Posted by: musccy 



the UDFA nerd used were from 2010 and 2012 draft process not 2011. I don't mind picking up a few of them every year. I am still waiting for Williams, Goode, Boykin, Masthay, Harris or Richardson to be included. They are as relevant to this discussion as the rest of them.

Jennings and Lattimore are the only 2 UDFA from 2011 currently on the team.
UserPostedImage
musccy
10 years ago

the UDFA nerd used were from 2010 and 2012 draft process not 2011. I don't mind picking up a few of them every year. I am still waiting for Williams, Goode, Boykin, Masthay, Harris or Richardson to be included. They are as relevant to this discussion as the rest of them.

Jennings and Lattimore are the only 2 UDFA from 2011 currently on the team.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



From what I could find/recall, the following were NDFA's that the Packers initially signed, who did make some sort of contribution to the team. I'm likely forgetting a few, and I also excluded players initially signed by another team, such as Boykin, Masthay, and Francois.

2009 - EDS
2010 - Shields
2011 - Jennings, So'oto, Lattimore
2012 - Barclay, Moses, Richardson
2013 - Mulumba, Bostick, Stoneburner

Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (2m) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (14h) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon
packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
Mucky Tundra (15-Nov) : poor guy can't catch a break
wpr (15-Nov) : wow. That three different things for the kid.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

16h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

18h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

19-Nov / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.