wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago

My point exactly.


Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



no you said draft picks. which they are not.

You know all those "Ted Thompson gems," like Sam Shields, Don Barclay, Frank Zombo, Greg van Roten, etc?

This is what you use late round picks for. Get the remaining guys you don't want to have to compete for. Our staff are masters at this level of the talent pool.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 




we were discussing the 2011 draft. If you want to look at the 5th 6th and 7th rounds fine.

5 141 D.J. Williams
6 179 Caleb Schlauderaff
6 186 D.J. Smith
6 197 Ricky Elmore
7 218 Ryan Taylor
7 233 Lawrence Guy

Only Taylor is on the team. This is nothing for Ted or you to brag about.

House wasn't a first round pick. What do you want from Ted, first round talent all the way through the draft? House is great as a rotational depth player. He's held up well in that capacity, imo. Taylor is too. He was taken late in the draft. He's not a first rounder.

As for Sherrod, any player can go down at any time. We saw that this year with our QB.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



I guess you are willing to grade on a curve. Just being on the team merits a "B" in your book. "B" means above average for the NFL These players are hardly above average. They are not even average by NFL standards. Taylor is a "C". Playing on special teams at best is a "C" player. A starter on offense or defense but not standing out is only a "C" player no matter what round they are selected. Back ups at best are "C" players if you are so kind.
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nerdmann
10 years ago

no you said draft picks. which they are not.

we were discussing the 2011 draft. If you want to look at the 5th 6th and 7th rounds fine.

5 141 D.J. Williams
6 179 Caleb Schlauderaff
6 186 D.J. Smith
6 197 Ricky Elmore
7 218 Ryan Taylor
7 233 Lawrence Guy

Only Taylor is on the team. This is nothing for Ted or you to brag about.

I guess you are willing to grade on a curve. Just being on the team merits a "B" in your book. "B" means above average for the NFL These players are hardly above average. They are not even average by NFL standards. Taylor is a "C". Playing on special teams at best is a "C" player. A starter on offense or defense but not standing out is only a "C" player no matter what round they are selected. Back ups at best are "C" players if you are so kind.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



1 Wow, you really are dense aren't you. LOL

What I was saying was, Ted and the boys are GREAT at finding these "gem" type players who are still around at the end of the draft. Using late draft picks is a good way to seal the deal on guys over whom you don't want to compete. That way you can lock them in and not try to convince them to come to your team instead of someone else's. But yeah. Shields and those guys weren't drafted. lol. Which is why I used them as examples.

2 Yeah, so only one of those guys are on the team. That's nothing to brag about, right? Except you're missing one thing. All but one of them is still in the league. That means that they are good enough to play in the NFL. Just not good enough for OUR team.

Why penalize Ted because he's already stocked us with guys who can play? Harder to hit on a late draft pick when your team is stocked with talent, then it is when all your players suck.

3 You need to take a midol. Yeah, we got bounced from the playoffs. I understand, you're all pissing yourselves. Get over it. Our biggest problems are fixable.

I'm the first one to criticize this team and its coaches. But Ted isn't the weak link. There are shortcomings on both sides of the ball. Yet we remain competitive, because we have good players. This enables Aaron to stat whore and still be successful. It allows Capers' unit to shit itself and leave guys running uncovered, and still win.

But even though I don't think these problems with Mikes "Polish Football" philosophy and Dom's lack of work ethic are gonna get fixed, I'm not getting all pissy and trying to throw blame around. Let's all take a deep breath and look rationally at the situation.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
10 years ago
PREDICTION: We will win at least 12 games next year.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago
nerdmann I am too tired to argue with you tonight. Maybe tomorrow. I will simply say these are not even average players:

5 141 D.J. Williams
6 179 Caleb Schlauderaff
6 186 D.J. Smith
6 197 Ricky Elmore
7 218 Ryan Taylor
7 233 Lawrence Guy

when you drag in your college free agents, none outside Shields is even worth talking about. This whole thread is about the 2011 draft and you drag in players not in the draft as some sort of proof.
Zombro and Shields was 2010
van Roten and Barclay 2012

Stick to 2011.

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DakotaT
10 years ago

nerdmann I am too tired to argue with you tonight. Maybe tomorrow. I will simply say these are not even average players:


Originally Posted by: wpr 



You're lucky I'm not busting your chops then, ya old bastard. Yeah, that draft kind of licked ass pretty bad. Realistically you should draft 1 stud player, 3 good role players, and the rest is a crap shoot.

I love it when a guy like Sam Shields succeeds. We should tag his ass and pay him like the budding superstar he is and not because it's the right thing to do, because he's earned it.
UserPostedImage
musccy
10 years ago

nerdmann I am too tired to argue with you tonight. Maybe tomorrow. I will simply say these are not even average players:

5 141 D.J. Williams
6 179 Caleb Schlauderaff
6 186 D.J. Smith
6 197 Ricky Elmore
7 218 Ryan Taylor
7 233 Lawrence Guy

when you drag in your college free agents, none outside Shields is even worth talking about. This whole thread is about the 2011 draft and you drag in players not in the draft as some sort of proof.
Zombro and Shields was 2010
van Roten and Barclay 2012

Stick to 2011.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Even if you didn't technically draft shields, barclay, etc. They were signed days after the draft, if I'm not mistaken so clearly they were evaluated during the process and saying they weren't part of the draft is predominantly a matter of semantics. With that said, I agree, much of the 2011draft class/process sucked for g.b. I don't buy the argument that if they made it in the nfl but not GB that makes it a success. Why draft or sign a player that doesn't fit your team/scheme?
Rockmolder
10 years ago

1. What I was saying was, Ted and the boys are GREAT at finding these "gem" type players who are still around at the end of the draft. Using late draft picks is a good way to seal the deal on guys over whom you don't want to compete. That way you can lock them in and not try to convince them to come to your team instead of someone else's. But yeah. Shields and those guys weren't drafted. lol. Which is why I used them as examples.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



I agree with you on that one. The 6th and 7th rounds, in my eyes, are pretty much for locking up the UDFAs you're targetting. I don't see anything as a reach in those rounds and no position as becoming too crowded. I don't really mind if those guys make the roster, either, if it happens to be that way.

2 Yeah, so only one of those guys are on the team. That's nothing to brag about, right? Except you're missing one thing. All but one of them is still in the league. That means that they are good enough to play in the NFL. Just not good enough for OUR team.

Why penalize Ted because he's already stocked us with guys who can play? Harder to hit on a late draft pick when your team is stocked with talent, then it is when all your players suck.



And that's what I don't like. Everyone on the forum could already see at the point that that draft came around, that we were a deep team. I asume Ted saw that, as well. Of course that doesn't mean you go ahead and trade up to the first three times, but it does mean that you shouldn't keep trading down and stock up on UDFA-like guys. It pretty much leaves you with what we have now. A deep team that can take a lot of injuries and still function, but doesn't have a lot of that top tier talent.

I couldn't care less about Lawrence Guy being on the Chargers' roster. If our team's too deep already for those kind of guys, don't stock up on 6th and 7th rounders.

3 You need to take a midol. Yeah, we got bounced from the playoffs. I understand, you're all pissing yourselves. Get over it. Our biggest problems are fixable.

I'm the first one to criticize this team and its coaches. But Ted isn't the weak link. There are shortcomings on both sides of the ball. Yet we remain competitive, because we have good players. This enables Aaron to stat whore and still be successful. It allows Capers' unit to shit itself and leave guys running uncovered, and still win.

But even though I don't think these problems with Mikes "Polish Football" philosophy and Dom's lack of work ethic are gonna get fixed, I'm not getting all pissy and trying to throw blame around. Let's all take a deep breath and look rationally at the situation.



Calling someone dense and then starting with your whole statwhoring thing sounds rather hypocritical.

How you're up to date on Capers' work ethic is beyond me, as well.

If you feel like this is all Dom's fault, while we have an average D-line, with an average secondary and average linebacking group, I don't know who you'd want here to get instant results. The only playmaker right now is Clay, who's injured half the time, with Shields being near, but just not elite.

I'm not that big a fan of Capers. He always falls off after the first few years on the job, but I can't really blame him for how he's using the talent he has at his disposal right now.

nerdmann
10 years ago


I'm not that big a fan of Capers. He always falls off after the first few years on the job, but I can't really blame him for how he's using the talent he has at his disposal right now.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



Should he try Perry on the right side?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago

Even if you didn't technically draft shields, barclay, etc. They were signed days after the draft, if I'm not mistaken so clearly they were evaluated during the process and saying they weren't part of the draft is predominantly a matter of semantics. With that said, I agree, much of the 2011draft class/process sucked for g.b. I don't buy the argument that if they made it in the nfl but not GB that makes it a success. Why draft or sign a player that doesn't fit your team/scheme?

Originally Posted by: musccy 



the UDFA nerd used were from 2010 and 2012 draft process not 2011. I don't mind picking up a few of them every year. I am still waiting for Williams, Goode, Boykin, Masthay, Harris or Richardson to be included. They are as relevant to this discussion as the rest of them.

Jennings and Lattimore are the only 2 UDFA from 2011 currently on the team.
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musccy
10 years ago

the UDFA nerd used were from 2010 and 2012 draft process not 2011. I don't mind picking up a few of them every year. I am still waiting for Williams, Goode, Boykin, Masthay, Harris or Richardson to be included. They are as relevant to this discussion as the rest of them.

Jennings and Lattimore are the only 2 UDFA from 2011 currently on the team.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



From what I could find/recall, the following were NDFA's that the Packers initially signed, who did make some sort of contribution to the team. I'm likely forgetting a few, and I also excluded players initially signed by another team, such as Boykin, Masthay, and Francois.

2009 - EDS
2010 - Shields
2011 - Jennings, So'oto, Lattimore
2012 - Barclay, Moses, Richardson
2013 - Mulumba, Bostick, Stoneburner

Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (22m) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23m) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (37m) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (39m) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (40m) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (40m) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (41m) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (45m) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (45m) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (45m) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (46m) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (47m) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (50m) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (54m) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (55m) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (56m) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (1h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
Zero2Cool (1h) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.
packerfanoutwest (1h) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in
packerfanoutwest (1h) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker
packerfanoutwest (1h) : if bucs win out they win their division
beast (1h) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us
packerfanoutwest (1h) : falcons are already ahead of us
beast (1h) : Packers will get in
beast (1h) : If Packers lose the rest of their games and Falcons win the rest of theirs, they could pass us... but not gonna happen
packerfanoutwest (1h) : they still are in the playoffs
packerfanoutwest (1h) : If Packers lose the remaining games,,,,at 10-7
Zero2Cool (3h) : We can say it. We don't play.
Mucky Tundra (4h) : But to say they are in is looking past the Saints
Mucky Tundra (4h) : That said, their odds are very favorable with a >99% chance of making the playoffs entering this week's games
Mucky Tundra (4h) : Packers are not in and have not clinched a playoff spot.
buckeyepackfan (5h) : Packers are in, they need to keep winning to improve their seed#.
Mucky Tundra (14h) : Getting help would have been nice, but helping ourselves should always be the plan
beast (14h) : Too bad Seahawks couldn't beat Vikings
bboystyle (14h) : We just need to win Monday night and were in
Mucky Tundra (18h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (18h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (18h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (18h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other
beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)
Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.
beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs
packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.
beast (21-Dec) : Oh, that's how you keep beating buckeye, with cheating
Zero2Cool (20-Dec) : There is a rule that if your name starts with 'b' you lose 15 points. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them!
wpr (20-Dec) : and then there is Beast. Running away with it all.
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