play2win
11 years ago
It really is amazing how many components go into fielding a successful team. Top QB, check. Top WR, check. Top pass rusher, check. Top RB, check. Top LG, check. Top coaching staff, ? Top personnel staff, ?

I think there are many other positions that have been calling out for top talent, and we've had the picks at many of those positions with proven talents in the college ranks, yet, where is the development? For whatever reason, it seems the coaching has been suspect in many of these other areas not listed. S, ILB, DL, OT, C, TE, STs…

Arguments could be made that our DB coaching outside of S has been pretty solid, but a player like House going the opposite direction isn't helping matters. TE coaching seems alright with what Quarless is giving us, a player I really like. Taylor seems to be coming around, but not much going on with Bostick, a guy I thought would be excelling by now, especially with Finley out. Nick Perry seems to be doing very well at OLB, and I do believe Palmer and Mulumba are just a year out in terms of physical development to play at a high level in the Pro game. I struggle a bit at ILB as Jones is clearly not the answer, but I have hopes for Lattimore if he can stay healthy. Our difficulty getting Barclay and Newhouse up to speed has been hard to watch.

No matter what, I believe these are tough calls, personnel or coaching, but I lean more towards coaching as being the big problem area, and I believe better staff would get more out of the players we have. That is a difficult call to make, but it seems with a good 4 years sample, coaching seems to be the problem area. After winning the SB in 2010, there would be a natural expectation for high level play. Losing Cullen Jenkins hurt us. We fell in DL production from that point on, and have struggled to right that. Does that point to personnel? Maybe. Figure 3 years out of that, a team would be able to retool from a personnel standpoint and be back in serious contention. We've added good players, at least in my opinion they seem to be good, talented, proven. I just don't see that they are being properly developed to take us back to that high level of play. Or, maybe the expectations are too high to have these players develop in a 1-2 year window as opposed to a 3-4 year window. It could be that part of the system is unrealistic. But, other teams do it, realizing major contributions form 1st and 2nd year players. In fairness, we've had some of that with Lacy, Bakhtiari and Daniels. Other teams add FAs to plug holes in their rosters.

Far too many players injured. This, for the 4th year in a row. How do you retain the Strength & Conditioning staff given that sample? Being one of the youngest teams in the NFL for 4 years in a row raises questions as well.

Overall, this has been a pretty damn good team for the past 4 years, with the exception of some gaping holes on our OL, at S, at ILB and DL. We've struggled to either add talent there, develop talent there, or to keep the talent we have at those positions healthy. It has been a very mixed bag of all of that. This seems to point more to the coaching staff than the personnel staff. As a result, we are now struggling to get into the playoffs, and questions loom as to what we might do should we get there. I would not say that we've really played at a high level all season, as a team, with the exception of beating up on some weaker sisters, like CLE, and DET without Calvin Johnson, a struggling WAS, etc. Going into BAL and coming out with a W was our best all year, and may be the lone exception.

We've failed in some of our biggest games though, ones that really mattered most. Games with playoff significance, and made to look pretty bad in doing so. And, what about Home Field Advantage? That no longer exists in GB, for whatever reason. Is that a personnel issue?

Maybe, with what remains of this season they, players and coaches alike, can turn the corner, and be that team we've been hoping for since the 2010 run. Sean Richardson may prove to be a big part of that. So will the much anticipated return of Rodgers and hopefully Cobb.

Since this thread is indeed about Dom Capers, I'll add he has been missing key players at some of the positions that may be required to make his D successful. Again, the Richardson addition may help. Perry's return has to help. Neal cranking it up, and Daniels cranking it up will help. Maybe Raji does something with what is left in the year to help make this D go again. Maybe Burnett comes around to be the player we've all been waiting for. Maybe somebody does something positive at ILB, like, covering a TE...
PackFanWithTwins
11 years ago

After winning the SB in 2010, there would be a natural expectation for high level play. Losing Cullen Jenkins hurt us. We fell in DL production from that point on, and have struggled to right that. Does that point to personnel? Maybe. Figure 3 years out of that, a team would be able to retool from a personnel standpoint and be back in serious contention. We've added good players, at least in my opinion they seem to be good, talented, proven. I just don't see that they are being properly developed to take us back to that high level of play. Or, maybe the expectations are too high to have these players develop in a 1-2 year window as opposed to a 3-4 year window. It could be that part of the system is unrealistic. But, other teams do it, realizing major contributions form 1st and 2nd year players. In fairness, we've had some of that with Lacy, Bakhtiari and Daniels. Other teams add FAs to plug holes in their rosters.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



I think it is the expectations that are more to blame. Outside of high picks, it takes time for players to develop. If we look back, Tramon, Collins, Jenkins, Kampman, they all took at least 3 years to develop. Jordy and Jones took a few years to really excel.

I still think the biggest thing that hurt the team, was losing Collins, as it was an unexpected loss. But a loss that made the team completely change how they defend. Being able to have that Deep Safety cover both sidelines, allows for the coverage and zones underneath to be tighter and have smaller windows. Now we are depending on both safeties to cover deep, which makes the crossing routes under bigger.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
play2win
11 years ago

I think it is the expectations that are more to blame. Outside of high picks, it takes time for players to develop. If we look back, Tramon, Collins, Jenkins, Kampman, they all took at least 3 years to develop. Jordy and Jones took a few years to really excel.

I still think the biggest thing that hurt the team, was losing Collins, as it was an unexpected loss. But a loss that made the team completely change how they defend. Being able to have that Deep Safety cover both sidelines, allows for the coverage and zones underneath to be tighter and have smaller windows. Now we are depending on both safeties to cover deep, which makes the crossing routes under bigger.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Yeah, I tend to agree with you PackFanWithTwins on some of the expectations being out of whack with regards to player development. Part of that is McCarthy's very public insistence on a step up in play year 2.

But, if your window is that big, 3-4 years, maybe it points more to the personnel side, with not filling holes in the roster adequately. Especially when you hold firm to not playing in the FA market. Your point on Collins is huge. We have had 2 drafts since to address this, yet, nothing done specifically to upgrade the FS position. McMillian was a R4 from 2012, and never really panned out and was cut.

Dom does need his playmakers at key positions to make it all go. Cupboards have been bare at some, for years. I find the whole subject very interesting. How can one say for sure that it is Dom, or Thompson? I'm thinking it is some of all 3, Capers, McCarthy, Thompson that shares the blame for the current state of this team, and our lack of production.
11 years ago

I think it is the expectations that are more to blame. Outside of high picks, it takes time for players to develop. If we look back, Tramon, Collins, Jenkins, Kampman, they all took at least 3 years to develop. Jordy and Jones took a few years to really excel.

I still think the biggest thing that hurt the team, was losing Collins, as it was an unexpected loss. But a loss that made the team completely change how they defend. Being able to have that Deep Safety cover both sidelines, allows for the coverage and zones underneath to be tighter and have smaller windows. Now we are depending on both safeties to cover deep, which makes the crossing routes under bigger.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Nick Collins very likely could of been the best safety in the league if he was still playing.
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Zero2Cool
11 years ago
Division Championship still means something to me. A little more knowing it could be won on the Bears field. That just adds a little sweetness to it.

But since division championship is meaningless to some of you, or so it feels implied ... I do not expect you to watch this game because the outcome is ... meaningless.
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DarkaneRules
11 years ago
To me, it is not about getting the NFC North title, it is about getting to the playoffs whichever way afforded to you and seeing what happens. This is our chance. Let's see what happens 🙂
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
PackFanWithTwins
11 years ago
Must win to keep above .500 in NFC North Championships.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
DakotaT
  • DakotaT
  • Select Member Topic Starter
11 years ago

Division Championship still means something to me. A little more knowing it could be won on the Bears field. That just adds a little sweetness to it.

But since division championship is meaningless to some of you, or so it feels implied ... I do not expect you to watch this game because the outcome is ... meaningless.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Oh please drama queen, stop with all the torture!!!! Some of you actually are conceited enough to think you are better fans cause you keep a rah rah spirit? While some of us actually call for some accountability when the team is playing like dog shit, why are we wrong?
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sschind
11 years ago

Division Championship still means something to me. A little more knowing it could be won on the Bears field. That just adds a little sweetness to it.

But since division championship is meaningless to some of you, or so it feels implied ... I do not expect you to watch this game because the outcome is ... meaningless.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Every game the Packers play means something to me and I want them to win them all. On the score yesterday someone was asked if the NFCN title meant anything since the division sucks and he said the record books don't mention that the division sucks.

Its all steps toward the end which is winning the SB. It is the goal of every team every year. Some people feel that anything short of that goal is a failure and that's fine but for me there are a lot of other goals that build up to the big one. Making the playoffs is one and winning the division is another. You can't accomplish the big one if you don't do at least one of the two smaller ones. The Packers can accomplish two of those goals on Sunday.

Its kind of like the NCAA basketball tournament. It seems to me that more people get excited over the final 4 than they do about the the championship game. I'm not saying that making the playoffs is the same as winning the Super Bowl and I am not even saying that making the final 4 is as big as winning it all but my point is that some people still place and importance on smaller goals.
11 years ago

Oh please drama queen, stop with all the torture!!!! Some of you actually are conceited enough to think you are better fans cause you keep a rah rah spirit? While some of us actually call for some accountability when the team is playing like dog shit, why are we wrong?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Just because fans keep a "rah rah spirit" doesn't mean they don't want to see accountability when the team is playing like dog shit.
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Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (9h) : QB coach Sean Mannion
Zero2Cool (9h) : DL Coach DeMarcus Covington
dfosterf (12h) : from ft Belvoir, Quantico and points south. Somber reminder of this tragedy at Reagan Nat Airport
dfosterf (12h) : So eerily quiet here in Alexandria. I live in the flight path of commercial craft coming from the south and west, plus the military craft
dfosterf (12h) : So eeri
Mucky Tundra (16h) : Now that's a thought, maybe they're looking at the college ranks? Maybe not head coaches but DC/assistant DCs with league experience?
beast (17h) : College Coaches wouldn't want that publicly, as it would hurt recruiting and they might not get the job.
beast (17h) : I thought they were supposed to publicly announce them, at least the NFL ones. Hafley was from college, so I believe different rules.
Mucky Tundra (17h) : Who knows who they're interviewing? I mean, nobody knew about Hafley and then out of nowhere he was hired
beast (20h) : I wonder what's taking so long with hiring a DL coach, 2 of the 3 known to interview have already been hired elsewhere.
Zero2Cool (27-Jan) : Packers coach Matt LaFleur hires Luke Getsy as senior assistant, extends Rich Bisaccia's deal
Zero2Cool (27-Jan) : Chiefs again huh? I guess another Super Bowl I'll be finding something else to do.
Mucky Tundra (27-Jan) : Chiefs Eagles...again...sigh
dfosterf (27-Jan) : Happy Birthday Dave!
Mucky Tundra (27-Jan) : happy birthday dhazer
TheKanataThrilla (26-Jan) : Exactly buck...Washington came up with the ball. It is just a shitty coincidence one week later
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : I forgot, they corrected the call a week later. Lol btw HAPPY BIRTHDAY dhazer!
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : That brings up the question, why wasn't Nixon down by contact? I think that was the point Kanata was making.
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : Turnovers rule, win the turnover battle, win the game.
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : well, he was
TheKanataThrilla (26-Jan) : Eagles down by contact on the fumble....fuck you NFL
Mucky Tundra (26-Jan) : I think this games over
beast (26-Jan) : Eagles sure get a lot of fumbles on kickoffs
Mucky Tundra (26-Jan) : This game looks too big for Washington
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : that being said, The Ravens are the Browns
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : Browns, Dolphins have longest AFC Championship droughts
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : As of today, Cowboys have longest NFC Championship drought,
beast (26-Jan) : Someone pointed out, with Raiders hiring Carroll, the division games between Carroll and Jim Harbaugh are back on (who can whine more games)
beast (26-Jan) : I'm confused, Pete Carroll and Brian Schottenheimer? When Todd Monken, Joe Brady, Kellen Moore, Kliff Kingsbury and Zac Robinson are availab
Zero2Cool (25-Jan) : Any reason I'm catching a shot here about my intelligence?
Martha Careful (25-Jan) : thank you Mucky for sticking up for me
Martha Careful (25-Jan) : some of those people are smarter than you zero. However Pete Carroll is not
Mucky Tundra (24-Jan) : Rude!
beast (24-Jan) : Martha? 😋
Zero2Cool (24-Jan) : Raiders hired someone from the elderly home.
dfosterf (24-Jan) : I'm going with a combination of the two.
beast (24-Jan) : Either the Cowboys have no idea what they're doing, or they're targeting their former OC, currently the Eagles OC
Zero2Cool (23-Jan) : Fake news. Cowboys say no
Zero2Cool (23-Jan) : Mystery candidate in the Cowboys head coaching search believed to be Packers ST Coordinator Rich Bisaccia.
beast (23-Jan) : Also why do both NYC teams have absolutely horrible OL for over a decade?
beast (23-Jan) : I wonder why the Jets always hire defensive coaches to be head coach
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Still HC positions available out there. I wonder if Hafley pops up for one
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Trent Baalke is out as the Jaguars GM.
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Jeff Hafley would have been a better choice, fortunately they don't know that. Someone will figure that out next off season
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Aaron Glenn Planning To Take Jets HC Job
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Martha- C'est mon boulot! 😁
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Thank you
wpr (22-Jan) : Z, glad you are feeling better.
wpr (22-Jan) : My son and D-I-L work for UM. It's a way to pick on them.
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Thank you. I rarely get sick, and even more rarely sick to the point I can't work.
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