play2win
11 years ago
It really is amazing how many components go into fielding a successful team. Top QB, check. Top WR, check. Top pass rusher, check. Top RB, check. Top LG, check. Top coaching staff, ? Top personnel staff, ?

I think there are many other positions that have been calling out for top talent, and we've had the picks at many of those positions with proven talents in the college ranks, yet, where is the development? For whatever reason, it seems the coaching has been suspect in many of these other areas not listed. S, ILB, DL, OT, C, TE, STs…

Arguments could be made that our DB coaching outside of S has been pretty solid, but a player like House going the opposite direction isn't helping matters. TE coaching seems alright with what Quarless is giving us, a player I really like. Taylor seems to be coming around, but not much going on with Bostick, a guy I thought would be excelling by now, especially with Finley out. Nick Perry seems to be doing very well at OLB, and I do believe Palmer and Mulumba are just a year out in terms of physical development to play at a high level in the Pro game. I struggle a bit at ILB as Jones is clearly not the answer, but I have hopes for Lattimore if he can stay healthy. Our difficulty getting Barclay and Newhouse up to speed has been hard to watch.

No matter what, I believe these are tough calls, personnel or coaching, but I lean more towards coaching as being the big problem area, and I believe better staff would get more out of the players we have. That is a difficult call to make, but it seems with a good 4 years sample, coaching seems to be the problem area. After winning the SB in 2010, there would be a natural expectation for high level play. Losing Cullen Jenkins hurt us. We fell in DL production from that point on, and have struggled to right that. Does that point to personnel? Maybe. Figure 3 years out of that, a team would be able to retool from a personnel standpoint and be back in serious contention. We've added good players, at least in my opinion they seem to be good, talented, proven. I just don't see that they are being properly developed to take us back to that high level of play. Or, maybe the expectations are too high to have these players develop in a 1-2 year window as opposed to a 3-4 year window. It could be that part of the system is unrealistic. But, other teams do it, realizing major contributions form 1st and 2nd year players. In fairness, we've had some of that with Lacy, Bakhtiari and Daniels. Other teams add FAs to plug holes in their rosters.

Far too many players injured. This, for the 4th year in a row. How do you retain the Strength & Conditioning staff given that sample? Being one of the youngest teams in the NFL for 4 years in a row raises questions as well.

Overall, this has been a pretty damn good team for the past 4 years, with the exception of some gaping holes on our OL, at S, at ILB and DL. We've struggled to either add talent there, develop talent there, or to keep the talent we have at those positions healthy. It has been a very mixed bag of all of that. This seems to point more to the coaching staff than the personnel staff. As a result, we are now struggling to get into the playoffs, and questions loom as to what we might do should we get there. I would not say that we've really played at a high level all season, as a team, with the exception of beating up on some weaker sisters, like CLE, and DET without Calvin Johnson, a struggling WAS, etc. Going into BAL and coming out with a W was our best all year, and may be the lone exception.

We've failed in some of our biggest games though, ones that really mattered most. Games with playoff significance, and made to look pretty bad in doing so. And, what about Home Field Advantage? That no longer exists in GB, for whatever reason. Is that a personnel issue?

Maybe, with what remains of this season they, players and coaches alike, can turn the corner, and be that team we've been hoping for since the 2010 run. Sean Richardson may prove to be a big part of that. So will the much anticipated return of Rodgers and hopefully Cobb.

Since this thread is indeed about Dom Capers, I'll add he has been missing key players at some of the positions that may be required to make his D successful. Again, the Richardson addition may help. Perry's return has to help. Neal cranking it up, and Daniels cranking it up will help. Maybe Raji does something with what is left in the year to help make this D go again. Maybe Burnett comes around to be the player we've all been waiting for. Maybe somebody does something positive at ILB, like, covering a TE...
PackFanWithTwins
11 years ago

After winning the SB in 2010, there would be a natural expectation for high level play. Losing Cullen Jenkins hurt us. We fell in DL production from that point on, and have struggled to right that. Does that point to personnel? Maybe. Figure 3 years out of that, a team would be able to retool from a personnel standpoint and be back in serious contention. We've added good players, at least in my opinion they seem to be good, talented, proven. I just don't see that they are being properly developed to take us back to that high level of play. Or, maybe the expectations are too high to have these players develop in a 1-2 year window as opposed to a 3-4 year window. It could be that part of the system is unrealistic. But, other teams do it, realizing major contributions form 1st and 2nd year players. In fairness, we've had some of that with Lacy, Bakhtiari and Daniels. Other teams add FAs to plug holes in their rosters.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



I think it is the expectations that are more to blame. Outside of high picks, it takes time for players to develop. If we look back, Tramon, Collins, Jenkins, Kampman, they all took at least 3 years to develop. Jordy and Jones took a few years to really excel.

I still think the biggest thing that hurt the team, was losing Collins, as it was an unexpected loss. But a loss that made the team completely change how they defend. Being able to have that Deep Safety cover both sidelines, allows for the coverage and zones underneath to be tighter and have smaller windows. Now we are depending on both safeties to cover deep, which makes the crossing routes under bigger.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
play2win
11 years ago

I think it is the expectations that are more to blame. Outside of high picks, it takes time for players to develop. If we look back, Tramon, Collins, Jenkins, Kampman, they all took at least 3 years to develop. Jordy and Jones took a few years to really excel.

I still think the biggest thing that hurt the team, was losing Collins, as it was an unexpected loss. But a loss that made the team completely change how they defend. Being able to have that Deep Safety cover both sidelines, allows for the coverage and zones underneath to be tighter and have smaller windows. Now we are depending on both safeties to cover deep, which makes the crossing routes under bigger.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Yeah, I tend to agree with you PackFanWithTwins on some of the expectations being out of whack with regards to player development. Part of that is McCarthy's very public insistence on a step up in play year 2.

But, if your window is that big, 3-4 years, maybe it points more to the personnel side, with not filling holes in the roster adequately. Especially when you hold firm to not playing in the FA market. Your point on Collins is huge. We have had 2 drafts since to address this, yet, nothing done specifically to upgrade the FS position. McMillian was a R4 from 2012, and never really panned out and was cut.

Dom does need his playmakers at key positions to make it all go. Cupboards have been bare at some, for years. I find the whole subject very interesting. How can one say for sure that it is Dom, or Thompson? I'm thinking it is some of all 3, Capers, McCarthy, Thompson that shares the blame for the current state of this team, and our lack of production.
11 years ago

I think it is the expectations that are more to blame. Outside of high picks, it takes time for players to develop. If we look back, Tramon, Collins, Jenkins, Kampman, they all took at least 3 years to develop. Jordy and Jones took a few years to really excel.

I still think the biggest thing that hurt the team, was losing Collins, as it was an unexpected loss. But a loss that made the team completely change how they defend. Being able to have that Deep Safety cover both sidelines, allows for the coverage and zones underneath to be tighter and have smaller windows. Now we are depending on both safeties to cover deep, which makes the crossing routes under bigger.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Nick Collins very likely could of been the best safety in the league if he was still playing.
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Zero2Cool
11 years ago
Division Championship still means something to me. A little more knowing it could be won on the Bears field. That just adds a little sweetness to it.

But since division championship is meaningless to some of you, or so it feels implied ... I do not expect you to watch this game because the outcome is ... meaningless.
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DarkaneRules
11 years ago
To me, it is not about getting the NFC North title, it is about getting to the playoffs whichever way afforded to you and seeing what happens. This is our chance. Let's see what happens 🙂
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
PackFanWithTwins
11 years ago
Must win to keep above .500 in NFC North Championships.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
DakotaT
  • DakotaT
  • Select Member Topic Starter
11 years ago

Division Championship still means something to me. A little more knowing it could be won on the Bears field. That just adds a little sweetness to it.

But since division championship is meaningless to some of you, or so it feels implied ... I do not expect you to watch this game because the outcome is ... meaningless.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Oh please drama queen, stop with all the torture!!!! Some of you actually are conceited enough to think you are better fans cause you keep a rah rah spirit? While some of us actually call for some accountability when the team is playing like dog shit, why are we wrong?
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sschind
11 years ago

Division Championship still means something to me. A little more knowing it could be won on the Bears field. That just adds a little sweetness to it.

But since division championship is meaningless to some of you, or so it feels implied ... I do not expect you to watch this game because the outcome is ... meaningless.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Every game the Packers play means something to me and I want them to win them all. On the score yesterday someone was asked if the NFCN title meant anything since the division sucks and he said the record books don't mention that the division sucks.

Its all steps toward the end which is winning the SB. It is the goal of every team every year. Some people feel that anything short of that goal is a failure and that's fine but for me there are a lot of other goals that build up to the big one. Making the playoffs is one and winning the division is another. You can't accomplish the big one if you don't do at least one of the two smaller ones. The Packers can accomplish two of those goals on Sunday.

Its kind of like the NCAA basketball tournament. It seems to me that more people get excited over the final 4 than they do about the the championship game. I'm not saying that making the playoffs is the same as winning the Super Bowl and I am not even saying that making the final 4 is as big as winning it all but my point is that some people still place and importance on smaller goals.
11 years ago

Oh please drama queen, stop with all the torture!!!! Some of you actually are conceited enough to think you are better fans cause you keep a rah rah spirit? While some of us actually call for some accountability when the team is playing like dog shit, why are we wrong?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Just because fans keep a "rah rah spirit" doesn't mean they don't want to see accountability when the team is playing like dog shit.
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Zero2Cool (17h) : Bengals planning to Franchise Tag Tamaurice Higgins
Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
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