play2win
11 years ago
It really is amazing how many components go into fielding a successful team. Top QB, check. Top WR, check. Top pass rusher, check. Top RB, check. Top LG, check. Top coaching staff, ? Top personnel staff, ?

I think there are many other positions that have been calling out for top talent, and we've had the picks at many of those positions with proven talents in the college ranks, yet, where is the development? For whatever reason, it seems the coaching has been suspect in many of these other areas not listed. S, ILB, DL, OT, C, TE, STs…

Arguments could be made that our DB coaching outside of S has been pretty solid, but a player like House going the opposite direction isn't helping matters. TE coaching seems alright with what Quarless is giving us, a player I really like. Taylor seems to be coming around, but not much going on with Bostick, a guy I thought would be excelling by now, especially with Finley out. Nick Perry seems to be doing very well at OLB, and I do believe Palmer and Mulumba are just a year out in terms of physical development to play at a high level in the Pro game. I struggle a bit at ILB as Jones is clearly not the answer, but I have hopes for Lattimore if he can stay healthy. Our difficulty getting Barclay and Newhouse up to speed has been hard to watch.

No matter what, I believe these are tough calls, personnel or coaching, but I lean more towards coaching as being the big problem area, and I believe better staff would get more out of the players we have. That is a difficult call to make, but it seems with a good 4 years sample, coaching seems to be the problem area. After winning the SB in 2010, there would be a natural expectation for high level play. Losing Cullen Jenkins hurt us. We fell in DL production from that point on, and have struggled to right that. Does that point to personnel? Maybe. Figure 3 years out of that, a team would be able to retool from a personnel standpoint and be back in serious contention. We've added good players, at least in my opinion they seem to be good, talented, proven. I just don't see that they are being properly developed to take us back to that high level of play. Or, maybe the expectations are too high to have these players develop in a 1-2 year window as opposed to a 3-4 year window. It could be that part of the system is unrealistic. But, other teams do it, realizing major contributions form 1st and 2nd year players. In fairness, we've had some of that with Lacy, Bakhtiari and Daniels. Other teams add FAs to plug holes in their rosters.

Far too many players injured. This, for the 4th year in a row. How do you retain the Strength & Conditioning staff given that sample? Being one of the youngest teams in the NFL for 4 years in a row raises questions as well.

Overall, this has been a pretty damn good team for the past 4 years, with the exception of some gaping holes on our OL, at S, at ILB and DL. We've struggled to either add talent there, develop talent there, or to keep the talent we have at those positions healthy. It has been a very mixed bag of all of that. This seems to point more to the coaching staff than the personnel staff. As a result, we are now struggling to get into the playoffs, and questions loom as to what we might do should we get there. I would not say that we've really played at a high level all season, as a team, with the exception of beating up on some weaker sisters, like CLE, and DET without Calvin Johnson, a struggling WAS, etc. Going into BAL and coming out with a W was our best all year, and may be the lone exception.

We've failed in some of our biggest games though, ones that really mattered most. Games with playoff significance, and made to look pretty bad in doing so. And, what about Home Field Advantage? That no longer exists in GB, for whatever reason. Is that a personnel issue?

Maybe, with what remains of this season they, players and coaches alike, can turn the corner, and be that team we've been hoping for since the 2010 run. Sean Richardson may prove to be a big part of that. So will the much anticipated return of Rodgers and hopefully Cobb.

Since this thread is indeed about Dom Capers, I'll add he has been missing key players at some of the positions that may be required to make his D successful. Again, the Richardson addition may help. Perry's return has to help. Neal cranking it up, and Daniels cranking it up will help. Maybe Raji does something with what is left in the year to help make this D go again. Maybe Burnett comes around to be the player we've all been waiting for. Maybe somebody does something positive at ILB, like, covering a TE...
PackFanWithTwins
11 years ago

After winning the SB in 2010, there would be a natural expectation for high level play. Losing Cullen Jenkins hurt us. We fell in DL production from that point on, and have struggled to right that. Does that point to personnel? Maybe. Figure 3 years out of that, a team would be able to retool from a personnel standpoint and be back in serious contention. We've added good players, at least in my opinion they seem to be good, talented, proven. I just don't see that they are being properly developed to take us back to that high level of play. Or, maybe the expectations are too high to have these players develop in a 1-2 year window as opposed to a 3-4 year window. It could be that part of the system is unrealistic. But, other teams do it, realizing major contributions form 1st and 2nd year players. In fairness, we've had some of that with Lacy, Bakhtiari and Daniels. Other teams add FAs to plug holes in their rosters.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



I think it is the expectations that are more to blame. Outside of high picks, it takes time for players to develop. If we look back, Tramon, Collins, Jenkins, Kampman, they all took at least 3 years to develop. Jordy and Jones took a few years to really excel.

I still think the biggest thing that hurt the team, was losing Collins, as it was an unexpected loss. But a loss that made the team completely change how they defend. Being able to have that Deep Safety cover both sidelines, allows for the coverage and zones underneath to be tighter and have smaller windows. Now we are depending on both safeties to cover deep, which makes the crossing routes under bigger.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
play2win
11 years ago

I think it is the expectations that are more to blame. Outside of high picks, it takes time for players to develop. If we look back, Tramon, Collins, Jenkins, Kampman, they all took at least 3 years to develop. Jordy and Jones took a few years to really excel.

I still think the biggest thing that hurt the team, was losing Collins, as it was an unexpected loss. But a loss that made the team completely change how they defend. Being able to have that Deep Safety cover both sidelines, allows for the coverage and zones underneath to be tighter and have smaller windows. Now we are depending on both safeties to cover deep, which makes the crossing routes under bigger.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Yeah, I tend to agree with you PackFanWithTwins on some of the expectations being out of whack with regards to player development. Part of that is McCarthy's very public insistence on a step up in play year 2.

But, if your window is that big, 3-4 years, maybe it points more to the personnel side, with not filling holes in the roster adequately. Especially when you hold firm to not playing in the FA market. Your point on Collins is huge. We have had 2 drafts since to address this, yet, nothing done specifically to upgrade the FS position. McMillian was a R4 from 2012, and never really panned out and was cut.

Dom does need his playmakers at key positions to make it all go. Cupboards have been bare at some, for years. I find the whole subject very interesting. How can one say for sure that it is Dom, or Thompson? I'm thinking it is some of all 3, Capers, McCarthy, Thompson that shares the blame for the current state of this team, and our lack of production.
11 years ago

I think it is the expectations that are more to blame. Outside of high picks, it takes time for players to develop. If we look back, Tramon, Collins, Jenkins, Kampman, they all took at least 3 years to develop. Jordy and Jones took a few years to really excel.

I still think the biggest thing that hurt the team, was losing Collins, as it was an unexpected loss. But a loss that made the team completely change how they defend. Being able to have that Deep Safety cover both sidelines, allows for the coverage and zones underneath to be tighter and have smaller windows. Now we are depending on both safeties to cover deep, which makes the crossing routes under bigger.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Nick Collins very likely could of been the best safety in the league if he was still playing.
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Zero2Cool
11 years ago
Division Championship still means something to me. A little more knowing it could be won on the Bears field. That just adds a little sweetness to it.

But since division championship is meaningless to some of you, or so it feels implied ... I do not expect you to watch this game because the outcome is ... meaningless.
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DarkaneRules
11 years ago
To me, it is not about getting the NFC North title, it is about getting to the playoffs whichever way afforded to you and seeing what happens. This is our chance. Let's see what happens 🙂
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
PackFanWithTwins
11 years ago
Must win to keep above .500 in NFC North Championships.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
DakotaT
  • DakotaT
  • Select Member Topic Starter
11 years ago

Division Championship still means something to me. A little more knowing it could be won on the Bears field. That just adds a little sweetness to it.

But since division championship is meaningless to some of you, or so it feels implied ... I do not expect you to watch this game because the outcome is ... meaningless.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Oh please drama queen, stop with all the torture!!!! Some of you actually are conceited enough to think you are better fans cause you keep a rah rah spirit? While some of us actually call for some accountability when the team is playing like dog shit, why are we wrong?
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sschind
11 years ago

Division Championship still means something to me. A little more knowing it could be won on the Bears field. That just adds a little sweetness to it.

But since division championship is meaningless to some of you, or so it feels implied ... I do not expect you to watch this game because the outcome is ... meaningless.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Every game the Packers play means something to me and I want them to win them all. On the score yesterday someone was asked if the NFCN title meant anything since the division sucks and he said the record books don't mention that the division sucks.

Its all steps toward the end which is winning the SB. It is the goal of every team every year. Some people feel that anything short of that goal is a failure and that's fine but for me there are a lot of other goals that build up to the big one. Making the playoffs is one and winning the division is another. You can't accomplish the big one if you don't do at least one of the two smaller ones. The Packers can accomplish two of those goals on Sunday.

Its kind of like the NCAA basketball tournament. It seems to me that more people get excited over the final 4 than they do about the the championship game. I'm not saying that making the playoffs is the same as winning the Super Bowl and I am not even saying that making the final 4 is as big as winning it all but my point is that some people still place and importance on smaller goals.
11 years ago

Oh please drama queen, stop with all the torture!!!! Some of you actually are conceited enough to think you are better fans cause you keep a rah rah spirit? While some of us actually call for some accountability when the team is playing like dog shit, why are we wrong?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Just because fans keep a "rah rah spirit" doesn't mean they don't want to see accountability when the team is playing like dog shit.
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Fan Shout
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packerfanoutwest (11h) : don't care
Zero2Cool (16h) : Lions shopping Jameson Williams?
packerfanoutwest (22-Apr) : Packers General Manager Brian Gutekunst says Green Bay’s roster can win, even without adding anyone in the draft.
Zero2Cool (22-Apr) : It's a poor design. New site has SignalR like our gameday chat
wpr (22-Apr) : Ah today's Shout was very quick to post.
wpr (22-Apr) : now 3
Zero2Cool (22-Apr) : Who? What?
beast (22-Apr) : What is he supposed to say? He doesn't want players currently on the team?
Martha Careful (21-Apr) : meh
Zero2Cool (21-Apr) : Sounds like Walker and Wyatt will be with Packers for beyond 2026
Zero2Cool (21-Apr) : It's so awesome.
Zero2Cool (21-Apr) : new site fan shout post fast
wpr (21-Apr) : Slow posting in Fan shout.
wpr (21-Apr) : Only 4
wpr (21-Apr) : Only 4
Zero2Cool (21-Apr) : If only we had a topic to read about and discuss it. That's something new website must have!!!
dfosterf (21-Apr) : Justice Musqueda over at Acme Packing put up an excellent synopsis of the Packers 1st round options this am
wpr (19-Apr) : 5 days
beast (18-Apr) : 6 days
wpr (17-Apr) : 7 days
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
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