play2win
12 years ago
Just reading Mike Vandermause chat at GBPG, and his sentiments seem to lie along the same lines as the talking points we often hear from Mike McCarthy: "This is a passing league, and with Aaron Rodgers at the controls, you want the ball in his hands."

"Finley would be my top priority. With the loss of Greg Jennings, they still need playmakers, and Finley is one. Or at worst, he opens up the field for others to shine. I know that sounds like an expensive decoy, but his presence makes that offense better."

" Look at 2010, when they won a Super Bowl title with James Starks as their primary ball carrier. That's proof you don't need a top-flight back to win it all."
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/interactive/article/20130129/PKR01/301300111/Mike-Vandermause-s-chat-What-will-Thompson-do-next- 

I look around at the where the NFL currently sits, and most importantly, the power in the NFL, and it doesn't seem to point to PASSING. Two of the top 11 RUSHING teams are in the Super Bowl. None of the top 11 passing teams are. Not one of them. BAL is #15. SF is #23. I think that is significant.

While balance appears to be important, it seems to me teams need a rushing heavy game plan to win it all in today's NFL. Frank Gore. Ray Rice. Neither are slouches, but they are not the best in the league.

This company line we've been force fed over the years just doesn't seem to wash with me. Finley is big, but he is not the biggest TE in the NFL, or nothing extraordinary. Finley can be fast, but he certainly is not after the catch. He can't block worth a lick. And Vandermause suggests we can't live without him and should fork over $10M? Really? If he makes everybody so much better, then why is it our team didn't really take off in 2010 until after he went to IR with injury? Does anyone remember the BS flying around prior to his injury, between he and Jennings getting their touches?

I want to see this mentality in Green Bay change. Our skill players at QB and WR are some of the league's best. All we need to do is become more balanced on offense, by running the football more, and with authority. I'd love to see our team become more dedicated to road grading over our opponents with a well practiced/coached, well executed, and confidently called running attack.

It will open EVERYTHING else up, and make winning it all more attainable.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
12 years ago
well it makes sense that when teams load up to pass that the defense will load up to stop it. The offense then has to counter with a strong running game which then will be countered with a stronger run defense. It is a matter of move and counter moves.
More than a question of are they pass or running teams SF and Baltimore are teams that execute and don't make mistakes on offense or defense and that is what wins games. They are both 8th in Turnovers.
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earthquake
12 years ago
While I do agree that more balance would be good, one year does not make a trend, lets look at yards thrown by the previous few winning SP QBS:
Eli manning: 4933 - also Tom Brady 5,235
Aaron Rodgers: 4643
Drew Brees: 4,388
blank
Pack93z
12 years ago
No it is not a running league.

It is a balance league, over the course of a season and playoffs, teams are going to present options that try and take away one aspect while giving another up. As a team, you have to have the balance to counter punch what they "give up" to force them to play honest and then you can play to your strengths. About once a decade there is a defense that is so dominate that they can smother an offense, but the currently landscape of the NFL, I don't think that defense is out there. 85 Bears, 01 Ravens come to mind.

Example. 49ers post season.

Against us they ran because we tried to take away the middle of the line and played coverage behind it. They exploited our weak edges and ran it down our throats. Atlanta, took away the edges and the Niners exploited the secondary. They are balanced enough (even with Smith at QB) to attack what you give them.. in other words, they can play multiple different ways to beat you.

My opinion, is that we by default are pass happy and try to force our will through the passing game no matter what the defense presents us. In 2011 we were dominate enough to do that most games until someone through pass rush and coverage took it away and we were beaten because we could counter that. This year, we tried to be more balanced, but we still we reluctant to beat teams on the ground, late in the season we could run, I think we should have ran more and help bolster our defense, shorten the game and rely on Rodgers late to win it.

My hope is that we follow the age old saying, pass it to score points, run it to win games. Basically build up the score and be able to run it effectively after that to win the game and rip the oppositions hearts out.

The league is constantly in motion, we call things like the read option revolutionary, but honestly, it is just another variation of days gone past. Zone blocking and man blocking come in and out of "style". 3-4 and 4-3 go back and forth as the dominate defenses.. it is curricular in nature. Teams that win consistently are able to play balanced offense, the can run the ball and set the tone and couple that with a fresher defense that generally ranks high because their offenses control the clock.

The recipe has been around for decades. It isn't the only way to win, but IMO, it is the most consistent and effective way to win.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
doddpower
12 years ago
I think it has everything to do with the the defenses of the two teams this year, mixed with a balanced offense. Defense wins Championships. That's something I've always believed. Baltimore has been banged up this year, but they have been getting healthy recently and play very good defense most of the time. It's obvious the 49'ers have a great defense. Over half of their defensive starters are in the pro-bowl.

porky88
12 years ago
Both Joe Flacco and Colin Kaepernick are playing at a very high-level. Flacco has 8 TDs to 0 INTs in the postseason. We saw firsthand what Kaepernick did. The trend seems to lend credence to the level of quarterback play. If your quarterback gets hot, then you have a chance to win the Super Bowl.

In other words, it's a quarterback league. Kurt Warner, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Eli Manning are the last four quarterbacks from the NFC. Neither player had much of a dominant running game.

The AFC quarterbacks from the same span are Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady. I think the same philosophy applies, though Roethlisberger had an amazing defense in ‘08. He also had a very, very good one in ‘10.

Is this year another shift in the ever evolving NFL or is it the rise of two young quarterbacks into the next class?

My guess is the latter, though the Packers place a larger burden on Rodgers than most teams do their respective quarterback. They'd be wise to take some stress off him, and tweaking the running game isn’t a bad place to start.
porky88
12 years ago
Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (2h) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (2h) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (17h) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (19h) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : And with a Pass Rush that might as well be on a milk cartoon and no Jaire
Martha Careful (10-Feb) : I cant help but feel good about how well the Packers D played in Philly during the playoffs
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : this game is over
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : This might be the kill shot here
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