Replacing the Kickoff - One Considered Idea

Pack93z
Select Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

It isn't a horrible idea, but there are a couple concerns I would have with it.

1. It would favor passing oriented teams verses run oriented team a bit.

2. What would happen on a defensive penalty that was less than 15 yards but generated a first down. Defensive holding would come to mind. Would it result in a first down and retain possession? It would be just another play that we get to watch the offensive players beg for a flag. Any Flag.

What I do like about it is:

1. It eliminates probably the most ridiculous play in football.. the onside kick.

2. It will reduce the risk to the players overall with probably the most dangerous play in the game with the most high impact collisions.

Sean Gregory of TIME writes that one of the options being considered for replacing kickoffs entails giving the ball to the team that would have been kicking off at its own 30, automatically facing a fourth down and 15 yards to go. The team can then choose to punt or go for it, via fake punt or otherwise.

"PFTalk" wrote:

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

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Porforis
Veteran Member

12 years ago

Not a fan at all.

1. Why change? What reason is so important to justify making such a huge change to the way the game has been played since the beginning?
2. Nobody's going to go for it, and on the rare occasion that they will, you're replacing one trick "ridiculous play" with another.

You should be glad that NSD isn't here anymore to pull his statistics out of him bum saying that kickoffs are not particularly dangerous as compared to other plays. I guess my fear is that we can make all the changes in the world to make the game safer and safer, but at some point you need at accept that this is a rough game where people get hurt. Should we prevent people from turning themselves into missiles and launching their head into someone else's? Sure. Should we prevent people from using others' facemasks as a tackle-handle? Of course. But this isn't a minor rule change, this is a fundamental change to special teams in general. As such, there's a much higher burden to prove that this change is NEEDED, and not that it will just prevent one or two injuries a year.

Pack93z
Select Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

From experience.. I can tell you.. it is the heaviest hits you will take on average game in and out.

But stats to support it.

While I don’t have access to the NFL’s data , I did find this study on high school athletes, entitled “Effects of Time in Competition, Phase of Play, and Field Location on Injury Severity in High School Football” by Ellen E. Yard. Some of the lowlights as it relates to injuries for high school football players:

32.7% of injuries on kickoffs and punts were “severe” (defined as 21 or more missed days), compared to 19.3% on other plays.
20.3% of injuries on kickoffs and punts were concussions, compared to 10.9% on other plays.

Look.. they don't get any more traditional in the aspects of the game than I. Ask ZombieSlayer. lol.

But the risk vs reward of the kickoff isn't there with 10 guys running full speed smashing into other guys going in the opposite direction at varying speed. Law of physics will tell you there are more high speed hits in that single play (even in touchbacks) than the remainder of the plays on the field. Full speed contact that is.

This option, you still have the return element involved.. just you will not have as much full speed contact involved.

I remember all the worry about the kickoff placement change.. it will ruin the game. Really.. has anyone really noticed? Removing this play from the game, an ever evolving game, really isn't that big of a deal other than to maybe 2 to 3 players on the roster that make their living on this aspect of the game. And most of those will be retained for the punt returns.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Pack93z
Select Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

One more note on this.. I present this argument with the aspect that the game is under fire from lawsuits and safety concerns.

The game has changed and will continue to change with concussion being the primary focus. I would rather lose a play like this than them continuing to march down the road of fines and taking more and more contact out of the game.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

yooperfan
Veteran Member

12 years ago

Well, we could have just flag football with no helmets or pads.
I,m quite sure the incidence of injury would diminish markedly.

Seems like we are headed that way anyway.

Pack93z
Select Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

Seems like we are headed that way anyway.

Originally Posted by: yooperfan

That is kind of the attitude I accepted late in the 2010 season, besides being still pissed about the CBA.. I also accepted that the game I fell in love with as a child will be changing over the course of this decade due to liability lawsuits.

The NFL, regardless of how they present it, is trying to show that they are changing and that player safety is the priority. We all know money is the priority.. and player safety is directly tied to that cash cow.

Hence the over reactions to hits and blocks.. they are in a time crunch to show change.

My point here is this.. if they are going to change the game, I would rather this aspect change than further watering down the aggressive nature of the game.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

PackFanWithTwins
Veteran Member

12 years ago

This is really getting old. They are trying to take the hits out of the game, because players file lawsuits, yet the players are the ones who don't want to remove the hits from the game in the first place. I say, ask the players. Do you want the hitting removed for your own safety, or do you want to risk it. this isn't 50 years ago where they can play dumb and say we didn't know.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!

Pack93z
Select Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins

Agreed.. Lawyers will be the death of all things good on the face of this earth.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Porforis
Veteran Member

12 years ago

I guess I'm just less quick to accept that this is the way it has to be. It probably is, but it doesn't mean that I need to settle for the lesser of two evils - I still have some hope that the Players Union and past players stop pretending that they never knew that playing football could cause long-term damage, sign a waiver saying that any injuries sustained during a game are not the responsibility of the NFL and rattle off all known immediate and delayed physical issues associated with football, give the players and union a few goodies and call it a day.

Regardless of what the end results might turn out to be, this isn't about player safety and it isn't about what's good for the game. This is about political games, and both sides (NFL and players/union) need to grow up and find a more acceptable solution than turning the game upside down and inside out.

Pack93z
Select Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

#10

I guess I'm just less quick to accept that this is the way it has to be.

Originally Posted by: Porforis

I had the same hope prior to the lockout.. that failed. I continually watch players hold out in the second year of contracts for more pay. We see owners and the league office screw fans out of seats sold.

Time after time we see money put before the game.

This time.. it is a cash grab by players of the past.. looking for a cut of the pie the NFL has become. Just like the owners and to a degree the league itself.. they give two shits about the game itself as the priority. It is and will be going forward about the money.

It is all relative to society.

Much like the cost of living raise the Wisconsin Representatives want to give themselves as the rest of the working population hasn't seen that in a couple years. Money is truly the root of the problem.

Quick to change.. not really.. this has been increasing year in and out. Just don't see it changing.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

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beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won

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Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol

Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???

Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network

beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th

beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno

beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.

beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?

beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.

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