Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
12 years ago


Now to be honest and direct, I openly will tell you that many items in the bible seem in conflict and I have no issue with saying that I often ponder the verses within the Bible. Mostly because I challenge the interpretations of those that transcribed the Bible from God's words.

But none the less it is discussed in the context of the Bible.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



"Seem" is the key word. Any conflict is merely our own inability to see completely.

Which is why the pondering is so important.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
12 years ago

Yes, it is his will and supporting the weak demanded of us. Did Jesus hang out with kings of the earth or did he wallow with the underbelly of society?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Well, I don't think he "wallowed". Hung out with them, though. Definitely, that.

But I'm not sure he hung out with them because they were weak. Compared to Him, all of us are weak. Compared where he wants us to be (i.e., saved), we are all mucking about in the shit with the pigs. He wanted to save all of us.

He didn't minister to the physically poor and ill because they were weaker than the rich and healthy. If anything, it was the other way around. Recall the bit about the camel, the eye of a needle, and the rich man getting to the kingdom of heaven. And of course the strongest (by human standards) religiously were the Pharisees, and they proved the weakest of all throughout the New Testament.

I think the primary reason he hung out with the underbelly is that he wanted to drive home the point to us that without His grace, we were all a bunch of shitty pigs.




And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Pack93z
12 years ago
Snip... I will respond in detail later.. removing my partial thoughts for now.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Cheesey
12 years ago

Well, I don't think he "wallowed". Hung out with them, though. Definitely, that.

But I'm not sure he hung out with them because they were weak. Compared to Him, all of us are weak. Compared where he wants us to be (i.e., saved), we are all mucking about in the shit with the pigs. He wanted to save all of us.

He didn't minister to the physically poor and ill because they were weaker than the rich and healthy. If anything, it was the other way around. Recall the bit about the camel, the eye of a needle, and the rich man getting to the kingdom of heaven. And of course the strongest (by human standards) religiously were the Pharisees, and they proved the weakest of all throughout the New Testament.

I think the primary reason he hung out with the underbelly is that he wanted to drive home the point to us that without His grace, we were all a bunch of shitty pigs.



Originally Posted by: Wade 


And if i'm not mistaken, isn't "the eye of the needle" written about in the Bible actually the small entrance to the city that travellers had to come through to get into the city? Not actually an "eye of a needle". Which means if a rich guy wanted into the city, he had a heck of a time getting all of his "stuff" inside, without leaving alot behind.

As far as who Jesus hung out with, if you read the Bible, most (not all, but most) rich people thought they didn't need God, as they thought they had all they needed. If you have everything, who needs to ask God for your "daily bread?"
And as was stated, we arn't supposed to give by clanging bells saying "look at how great i am! Look how much I gave!" But yes, we supposed to help whoever we can, whatever their financial situation is. Even rich people need the saving grace of God.
When they die, they take the same thing with them i will take when i die......nothing.

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digsthepack
12 years ago
Wow, Dakota....way to go!! So, you think you know me, huh? While to my eternal shame I am in the last year of the boomers, worthless fucking hippies and Kumbaya singing motherfuckers that they are, I share none of their values. So, again, good for taking shots blindfolded in the dark, but you missed the target.

The boomers got the ball rolling, and their little hippie offspring has taken their parents ideas and put them on steroids. This is not a generational issue, so much as it is an ideals and values issue. Some amongst us value hard work and the rewards that come with it...regardless of what the work and rewards may be. Something we call the Judeo/Christian work ethic...the notion that work ennobles man.

On the other hand, there are those amongst us who feel workers' rewards are theirs to play politics and vote buying with. Both Republicans and Democrats play this game. However, one of these parties owns the schools providing so many children with a worthless education that prepares them for not much at all...at a tune of $15,000/year where I live. One of these party's ideals are more frequently represented in the media, and furthering the decay of our children's already addled minds. One of these parties is owned by trial lawyers who suck life out of business and society. One of these parties believes you can pay people (handsomely) to sit on their asses, and then act suprised when work does not appeal to them.

Combined, these influences have delivered an unrealistic message that you can play and frolic, remain a teenager until the 30s, spend everything you have on fun, and somehow own a sweet crib where you can lounge by the pool all day and party all night.

Again....no political party or generation is spared their assholes, but our society...schools, parents, media, government....have sold several generations of children/young adults a bill of goods, and now we pay the price.

In closing, Dakota, I know that politics is very personal, and can sometimes bring out the worst in people. You, dear sir, are a glaring example when you attack a person you know not one wit because they have the audacity to see things differently than you.

In closing, you may wish to know a little bit about something before you go slinging arrows, to do otherwise makes you look the fool. Now, get to the King and entertain him with joke and song!!
State Motto: "Wisconsin, our serial murderers eat their kill!"
DakotaT
12 years ago

Wow, Dakota....way to go!! So, you think you know me, huh? While to my eternal shame I am in the last year of the boomers, worthless fucking hippies and Kumbaya singing motherfuckers that they are, I share none of their values. So, again, good for taking shots blindfolded in the dark, but you missed the target.

The boomers got the ball rolling, and their little hippie offspring has taken their parents ideas and put them on steroids. This is not a generational issue, so much as it is an ideals and values issue. Some amongst us value hard work and the rewards that come with it...regardless of what the work and rewards may be. Something we call the Judeo/Christian work ethic...the notion that work ennobles man.

On the other hand, there are those amongst us who feel workers' rewards are theirs to play politics and vote buying with. Both Republicans and Democrats play this game. However, one of these parties owns the schools providing so many children with a worthless education that prepares them for not much at all...at a tune of $15,000/year where I live. One of these party's ideals are more frequently represented in the media, and furthering the decay of our children's already addled minds. One of these parties is owned by trial lawyers who suck life out of business and society. One of these parties believes you can pay people (handsomely) to sit on their asses, and then act suprised when work does not appeal to them.

Combined, these influences have delivered an unrealistic message that you can play and frolic, remain a teenager until the 30s, spend everything you have on fun, and somehow own a sweet crib where you can lounge by the pool all day and party all night.

Again....no political party or generation is spared their assholes, but our society...schools, parents, media, government....have sold several generations of children/young adults a bill of goods, and now we pay the price.

In closing, Dakota, I know that politics is very personal, and can sometimes bring out the worst in people. You, dear sir, are a glaring example when you attack a person you know not one wit because they have the audacity to see things differently than you.

In closing, you may wish to know a little bit about something before you go slinging arrows, to do otherwise makes you look the fool. Now, get to the King and entertain him with joke and song!!

Originally Posted by: digsthepack 



Digs - I attacked your generation as a whole - not as individuals. This country has gone to shit on your watch - and I'm waiting for you guys to do something to correct it all. The last great thing this country did was put a man on the moon - and the generation before yours was responsible. The infrastructure they built is crumbling and we have no money left to fix anything. Now you guys are all going to be cashing in on your retirement and passing the buck. Thanks. The boomers don't expect their asses kissed do they?
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Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Digs - I attacked your generation as a whole - not as individuals. This country has gone to shit on your watch - and I'm waiting for you guys to do something to correct it all. The last great thing this country did was put a man on the moon - and the generation before yours was responsible. The infrastructure they built is crumbling and we have no money left to fix anything. Now you guys are all going to be cashing in on your retirement and passing the buck. Thanks. The boomers don't expect their asses kissed do they?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Who raised his generation? Wait, God forbid parents take responsibility for their children!! Let's find someone to blame!!!


Finger
Point
Blame
WIN!!!
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DakotaT
12 years ago

Who raised his generation? Wait, God forbid parents take responsibility for their children!! Let's find someone to blame!!!


Finger
Point
Blame
WIN!!!

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I really don't care about Boomer outrage on my accusations. Zero, your generation, mine and the one after yours are left holding the bag of shit left in their wake. Why is it so atrocious for us to call them on it?
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
12 years ago

I really don't care about Boomer outrage on my accusations. Zero, your generation, mine and the one after yours are left holding the bag of shit left in their wake. Why is it so atrocious for us to call them on it?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



It isn't. And I say that as another one of those late boomers (b. 1958). Ours *was* the first me...me...me generation.

We were the children coming into the new affluence of the post-war generation. And we have rightly applauded ourselves for our activism and raising the consciousness of America regarding the war in Vietnam, environmental awareness, women's rights, and, especially, the civil rights movement.

I don't deny that my fellow boomers, as a rule, have been hard workers. They have.Boomers have by and large been hard workers and been motivated by doing good as well as by doing well. That's the good side. On the other hand, we have been an incredibly self-absorbed, arrogant and prideful group, convinced of our own righteousness and wisdom to a degree that our even more hardworking parents were not.

It is that arrogance and that pride which deserve scorn. For despite our good intentions, we have done bad. We have taken the greatest (human) system for economic and human good in human history in ways previously unimaginable, a system that has been able to harness the power of human discipline and ingenuity and converted it into a system of entitlement run by a nanny state. We have trampled on the values of the original Constitution and, especially, the Declaration of Independence, so much that they look like litter in a drunk's alley. We have so failed in our education and guidance of the generations that have followed us that they have not the intellectual skills to distinguish great ideas from the ideas of charlatans, pretenders, and know-nothings. We are the generation that has institutionalized sloppy thinking and the blame game, and we are the generation that has institutionalized political leadership that, at its best, has been distinguished by its mediocrity and, at its worst, would be better if replaced by empty offices.

You and other boomers may be offended, digsthepack, but DakotaT in his bluntness has the right of it. Our generation does have a lot to answer for. We have paved not just one road but the greatest network of roads leading to hell with our good intentions. Whether we did so out of greed or a desire to improve the world doesn't change the fact that we in our arrogance and our pride have for my entire adult lifetime approached the growing social security and other accounting tricks that allow us to ignore the problem and convert a small hill of obligation across generations into first Mount Everest and then Olympus Mons. And so corrupted are we in our arrogance and our folly, that even as we finally start to see the consequences of trillions of dollars of new debt every year, a chunk of us have taken advantage of our educational failures regarding numeracy and fiscal temperance to saddle the generations to come with the medical expenses of the largest generation in our history as we age.

While I admire him as a successful businessman, for his honey, for his family, for his compassion, and for a dozen other reasons, I have and will continue to disagree with DakotaT on many economic matters. I think he has far too much faith in the state. I think he fails to understand how markets work to temper greed. In his scorn for big business -- most of which I actually share -- I believe he fails to understand how it is markets, not the state, that has historically limited the ill effects such greed and big business can cause.

But for those shortcomings in his and his generation's economic thinking, too, we Boomers must at least share the blame. For his bad economic thinking is a product of our school system and of our failings as teachers. The ideas of stimulus and cradle-to-grave entitlements were not invented by our generation, but if our generation had been doing its job and paying attention to economic evidence, we would have realized the poverty of progressivist, populist, and Keynesian economics in the seventies and eighties. Dubya would have been unelectable. Obama would not have been fawned over as a great orator at the 2004 Democratic convention; he would have been laughed off the stage, with his boneheaded economic ideas in the trash bin along with the political ideas of George Wallace, George McGovern, and George III.

We have been well-meaning. And we have worked hard to pursue our visions of the good. Those things are are true.

We've had our chance. We've screwed it up. I won't be surprised if, when the implosion does come, the generations after us end up taking the franchise away from us. After all, have we really proven that we can be trusted with it?









And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
12 years ago
That is the nicest way I have ever been called a dumbass. Thanks Wade for owning up to what you individually didn't do.
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