Pack93z
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14 years ago
With this add.. that very well may alter my approach.. the biggest drawback to McNabb IMO is that he seems allergic to hits and can't handle pressure. so that Vikes went out and did a smart thing.. provide another option to protect McNabb.

Being completely serious.. I like the choice of coaches in MN.. Frasier will get this franchise moving in the right direction. With this add the Vikes staff has helped him in that effort moreso than the add of McNabb.


Vikings swipe Peyton’s blind-side protector 
Posted by Mike Florio on August 1, 2011, 2:44 PM EDT

While catching up on a hectic morning and early afternoon, I tripped over an e-mail from the Vikings that eventually made my jaw drop.

At first, it didn’t drop. Because I assumed that the there must be another tackle named Charlie Johnson, other than the one that plays left tackle for the Colts. You know, the one who started 15 games at left tackle for the Colts last year, protecting Peyton Manning’s blind side.

After donating a few page views to the billionaires at Google, it was then clear that the Vikings had swiped Johnson away from the Colts, even though the Colts had hoped to keep him.

“I wouldn’t say that ship has sailed,” Colts vice chairman Bill Polian said on Sunday regarding the chances of keeping Johnson. “We’ll discuss it as we go forward. But the market has slowed down right now. So who’s to say what’s going on at this point.”

What’s going on at this point is that Johnson is gone. And so only one day after Manning talked about taking less money so that quality players could be put in place around him, one of the most important players to a slow-footed, aging, right-handed quarterback will be protecting Donovan McNabb instead.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

With this add.. that very well may alter my approach.. the biggest drawback to McNabb IMO is that he seems allergic to hits and can't handle pressure. so that Vikes went out and did a smart thing.. provide another option to protect McNabb.

Being completely serious.. I like the choice of coaches in MN.. Frasier will get this franchise moving in the right direction. With this add the Vikes staff has helped him in that effort moreso than the add of McNabb.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 




I can assure you about 98% of all quarterbacks are allergic to hits. It's never fun when you're looking 15 yards or farther down field and next thing you know you're eating turf or staring at the clouds.


Ach-oooooooo
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zombieslayer
14 years ago

I disagree about your 'research'. I agree that an elite RB doesn't make a difference in the W-L columns but they DO make a difference. I also agree that D is #1.

The reason your research says the run isn't all that important is because the NFL rules heavily favors offenses, especially QBs and WRs. So of course your research is gonna come out like it has. But if you were completely right.. Then tell me this: Why hasn't a single NFL team run the spread offense instead of some variation of the West Coast? I mean, if the run isn't important, then why do sooo many teams even have a power I formation?

I respect that you put insight, effort and study into the game. But as a fan of the sport of football, I cannot except your research in whole.

Originally Posted by: Formo 



Yes, NFL rules favor Os, especially passing. Thus is why you go with the changes, not against them.

Teams that don't take advantage of the rule changes are foolish. Nowadays, you practically look at a receiver wrong, you get penalized. CBs have their hands behind their backs. Fair? No. But that's how it is.

As for my research, it's all stats, stats, and more stats. I did several write ups on this but am too lazy to find the links. They're somewhere on the site.

Stats = facts. And facts are facts. They just need a thesis attached to them.

As for your formations, look at the top teams. They pretty much all have elite QBs and solid Ds. Elite RBs? Often found on mediocre teams. That's my answer. I'm pretty ignorant about details. Just regurgitate numbers. Kind of like Rainman.
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Formo
14 years ago

With this add.. that very well may alter my approach.. the biggest drawback to McNabb IMO is that he seems allergic to hits and can't handle pressure. so that Vikes went out and did a smart thing.. provide another option to protect McNabb.

Being completely serious.. I like the choice of coaches in MN.. Frasier will get this franchise moving in the right direction. With this add the Vikes staff has helped him in that effort moreso than the add of McNabb.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Good find. I didn't hear about that this morning or this afternoon on my way to/from work. I wonder if this means the writings on the wall for Mt. McKinney (God I hope so).

Also would like to add that while yes the past few years the Vikes OLine has sucked (last year especially). And this year they are returning all of the starters with the addition you mentioned already. But what are they NOT returning this year? The regressive zone blocking scheme. With the sizes of the Vikings tackles, why would you employ a zone scheme anyway? These guys are not quick enough to go running to a certain zone to block. This year's scheme is (finally) man. Shawn, your thoughts on that and how it'll effect their play? (I ask because you are the resident 'hog molly' brain in these parts.)

I can assure you about 98% of all quarterbacks are allergic to hits. It's never fun when you're looking 15 yards or farther down field and next thing you know you're eating turf or staring at the clouds.


Ach-oooooooo

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Bwahahaha. So true.
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Formo
14 years ago

Yes, NFL rules favor Os, especially passing. Thus is why you go with the changes, not against them.

Teams that don't take advantage of the rule changes are foolish. Nowadays, you practically look at a receiver wrong, you get penalized. CBs have their hands behind their backs. Fair? No. But that's how it is.

As for my research, it's all stats, stats, and more stats. I did several write ups on this but am too lazy to find the links. They're somewhere on the site.

Stats = facts. And facts are facts. They just need a thesis attached to them.

As for your formations, look at the top teams. They pretty much all have elite QBs and solid Ds. Elite RBs? Often found on mediocre teams. That's my answer. I'm pretty ignorant about details. Just regurgitate numbers. Kind of like Rainman.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



Oh, I've seen and ready your research. Which is why I prefaced my response with telling you that I respected your efforts in them.

My point is I guarantee you that if every team went out to took full advantage of the pass-favored rules in the NFL and operated with a spread style offense, that defenses would adapt and eventually snuff out said offenses. Having an elite RB to counter those adapted defenses would give that team a pretty big edge.

All that is moot, of course, because even the dumbest of dumb NFL coaching minds won't operate their offenses on an almost exclusively pass orientated formation/scheme. Balance in the NFL.. hell, in FOOTBALL is a must.

Of course all that is for naught if you had the '10 Packers or the '09 Saints offenses but absolutely no defense.
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zombieslayer
14 years ago

Oh, I've seen and ready your research. Which is why I prefaced my response with telling you that I respected your efforts in them.

My point is I guarantee you that if every team went out to took full advantage of the pass-favored rules in the NFL and operated with a spread style offense, that defenses would adapt and eventually snuff out said offenses. Having an elite RB to counter those adapted defenses would give that team a pretty big edge.

All that is moot, of course, because even the dumbest of dumb NFL coaching minds won't operate their offenses on an almost exclusively pass orientated formation/scheme. Balance in the NFL.. hell, in FOOTBALL is a must.

Of course all that is for naught if you had the '10 Packers or the '09 Saints offenses but absolutely no defense.

Originally Posted by: Formo 



We should probably take this to another thread. I see where you're going with this on paper. But that's on paper. The research shows otherwise.

And no, I'm not one of the CHFF guys. I generally agree with them and I think they're with me on this argument.

Yes, Ds will adapt. But they can only adapt so much when the rule changes keep making it harder and harder to.

The NFL wants higher scoring games. Higher scoring games = more money.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago

We should probably take this to another thread. I see where you're going with this on paper. But that's on paper. The research shows otherwise.

And no, I'm not one of the CHFF guys. I generally agree with them and I think they're with me on this argument.

Yes, Ds will adapt. But they can only adapt so much when the rule changes keep making it harder and harder to.

The NFL wants higher scoring games. Higher scoring games = more money.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 


The Packers D has adapted by taking out a lineman and letting teams run against them. Focusing on stopping the pass.

Successfully, I might add.

I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
zombieslayer
14 years ago

The Packers D has adapted by taking out a lineman and letting teams run against them. Focusing on stopping the pass.

Successfully, I might add.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



Exactly. And that's another one of my arguments. If you can run well against us, so what? You'll eventually have to punt.

Meanwhile, we'll rack up points by passing the ball.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
macbob
14 years ago

Awesome. So you guys can go run, run, pass, punt. I think that's a fantastic O strategy. I love playing "balanced offenses." The most important player in a balanced O is the Punter.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



Fortunately, the Packer Defense realizes that one-dimensional offenses are predictable and easier to counter and aren't buying into that crap.

I'll let the pros speak for themselves:

Packers DC Capers Looks To Make Pittsburgh One Dimensional Packers DC Capers Looks To Make Pittsburgh One Dimensional

"I think our philosophy is based in number one, trying to stop the run and trying to make the game a one-dimensional game." Capers continued. "We feel we have many different things that can attack and pressure the quarterback, and we know this is a quarterback-driven league now."

http://www.patsfans.com/articles/patriots/3513/Packers-DC-Capers-Looks-To-Make-Pittsburgh-One-Dimensional.html 
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_721613.html 

Dom Capers wrote:


"That's been our main point every week -- we have to stop the run," Pickett said. "If we make a team one-dimensional, we kind of have our way with 'em."

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/fearless-prediction-packers-steelers-121909 

Ryan Pickett wrote:


Raji said the defense would continue to focus on stopping the run.

"Our philosophy, which has been working well for us so far, we want to stop the run initially so we can get teams in a more predictable state," he said. "Then we can come with the blitzing we love to do."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/108328314.html 

B.J. Raji wrote:


"Our plan is to stop the run first and make the other team one-dimensional," he said. "If we do that, we can get after them and disrupt the rhythm of the quarterback...

http://www.daily-jeff.com/news/article/4972267 

Dom Capers wrote:


“That’s why it’s so important to get the run stopped early, on first and second down. If you’re letting them get 3, 4 yards on first and second down, it puts them in third-and-short, and they have the whole playbook open with what they can do. If you can get the run stopped early, and force them into longer-yardage situations, it takes away some of the things they can do.”

http://espnmadison.com/includes/news_items/20/news_items_more.php?id=1527§ion_id=20 

Cullen Jenkins wrote:


"You can give a little bit and take a little bit. I think I'll be a great help. I know they (the Jets) are going to run the ball, so that's the main thing. Stop the run and make them one-dimensional."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/106249308.html 

Howard Green wrote:



"If we stop the run and make them one dimensional, we got some of the best players on the outside covering and rushing the passer," said Pickett. "So it makes the game a lot easier for us once we stop the run."

http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/green-bay-packers-better-equipped-to-stop-peterson 

Ryan Picket wrote:

Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
And we know general managers, coaches, and other team leaders are always honest and forthcoming about strategy decisions before the media.😝
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