Elite RBs are a waste of money· Page 7

macbob
Veteran Member

14 years ago

I really do believe with an elite D and an elite QB, the importance of a good RB goes way down. We could have easily won the SB with Jackson. Heck, next year, hypothetically speaking, our receivers are healthy and actually catch the ball, can we win it all with Jackson? I'd say yes.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

I agree with your first sentence if you change good RB to elite RB. You need a good RB to attract the defenses attention. Grant, Starks are good RBs.

Jackson? Easily won the SB with Jackson? Yeah, if our defense gets 3 turnovers and we abandon the running game maybe... :)

My opinion is Jackson's a passable receiving back, but is a poor fit for GB's ZBS. He's indecisive and is too slow hitting the hole.

Grant and Starks both are good enough to attract the defense's attention, and I don't think that we really need to make a move at RB if Grant's ankle is healing well.

macbob
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#62

As I do believe you have to run, you don't want to run "too much." Too many teams with elite RBs run too much. If you look at a lot of the past recent SB winners, they didn't have elite RBs and passed to open up the run.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Agreed up until the last 6 words. I actually agree with the words (passing can open up the run), but in my opinion that's not what you want to do offensively.

Offensively, passing is the way I'm going to sting you, and sting you hard. It's your primary weapon. In my opinion, the primary goal of a running game is to make it easier on your passing game, help your passing game be better.

Running has some other benefits as well--eating up clock so the other team has less opportunity to score, etc, but those are secondary to things like slowing down the pass rush, sucking safetys up into the box, tiring out the defensive line, improve your play action, etc--all with benefits to your passing game.

macbob
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#63

Macbob slights me all the time but he's backing up what he's saying.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Damn. Was I that obvious??? Crud. :icon_smile:

Personally, I think Macbob's a utopian. The game has changed.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Not true! I deny it! I'm eligible to be a PackersHome member! I have a US birth certificate! I just can't show it to you...

damn birthers are everywhere...

what? utopian means what??? It doesn't mean I was born in Utopia??? Nevermind...

The way I look at it, I think a good run/pass mix is in the 55-60% pass / 40-45% run range, and Zombie's more 70%/30%.

So I figure that makes me a moderate, and you must be an extremist, Zombie. I'm just having trouble figuring if you're a right wing :profileright: or left wing :profileleft: extremist... :icon_smile:

zombieslayer
Registered Topic Starter

14 years ago

#64

"macbob" wrote:

Don't worry, I read all your other posts.

Just wanted to talk about eating the clock. Keep in mind that if the score is close and it's not the 4th Q, when you're eating the clock, you may be shooting yourself in the foot. Thus, another problem with run first teams.

I agree with the other parts, but like I said, you don't want to run too much. If you have a fat lead, then yes, run.

I do think that 10 years from now, it will be 70/30. As a historian, I study trends and that's the trend we're heading for.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

14 years ago

#65

Those were wasted downs. We should have passed more so we could have gotten 40+ pts. 31-3? That's being too gentle. Running wasted valuable clock time that should have gone to Greg Jennings. Also, Rodgers never had 5 TD passes in a game. WTF? We could have easily broke the 5 barrier.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

I agree with the other parts, but like I said, you don't want to run too much. If you have a fat lead, then yes, run.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Passing is higher risk than running. If you're in the last half of the 4th quarter, up by 3 touchdowns or more, the intelligent thing to do is mix some runs with your short passes to keep the clock ticking. This isn't Madden. There are no cheat sheets to winning a game. There are only strategies that some work more than others.

Just because something hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't be done, ahem, 6th seed in NFC winning it all for example.

zombieslayer
Registered Topic Starter

14 years ago

#66

Zero - That first quote was obvious satire.

The second quote I'm agreeing with what you said. You run to eat the clock and end the game.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

14 years ago

#67

Zero - That first quote was obvious satire.

The second quote I'm agreeing with what you said. You run to eat the clock and end the game.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

NO THE FIRST QUOTE WAS NOT SATIN!!!

You don't agree!!!!

I don't know, I've lost interest in this one.

macbob
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#68

Zero - That first quote was obvious satire.

The second quote I'm agreeing with what you said. You run to eat the clock and end the game.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

I'm not a tremendous fan of running out the clock unless you're WAY up or down to the last couple of minutes. I think in general a team should stick with the offense that got them the lead in the first place.

For the most part, I feel the same about prevent defenses. Running out the clock too soon or going to a prevent too soon has all too often let a team back in the game when the outcome should not have been in doubt.

I was NOT happy with MM's playcalling at the end of the Eagles playoff game. Went to run-out-the-clock mode too early.

macbob
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#69

I do think that 10 years from now, it will be 70/30. As a historian, I study trends and that's the trend we're heading for.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

I had actually expected to see that trend in stats when I was doing research back to the 49ers from the 70s-90s and Packers back to early 90s through now. With the changes favoring the passing game, I expected the pass ratio now to be higher. But they weren't. They were virtually unchanged.

I think the reason why is that there appears to be a minimum run percentage to attract the defense's attention, and 30% seems to be below the threshhold--if you're running too infrequently, the defenses seem to ignore the run and concentrate on stopping the pass.

Multiple times during this past season Dom Capers and various defensive players say their #1 goal is to stop the opposing team's rushing attack to force the opposing offenst to be one-dimensional. Then the D pins their ears back and gets after the QB.

Frankly, if that's the goal of one of the elite defenses in the league then as an offensive coordinator I want to avoid the situation where the D can pin their ears back and get after my QB. Which appears to mean running at a low-to-mid 40s% clip, based on historical stats.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

12 years ago

#70

There was no correlation between having Barry Sanders, and winning, so no, he is also not an elite running back.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland

If you don't think Barry Sanders was an elite running back, you're an idiot and I mean that in a friendly way. [grin1]

Important Information:

The PACKERSHOME uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More Details Close

Fan Shout

Mucky Tundra (3h) : With buckeye and the reasonable couple, we're currently sitting at 10

buckeyepackfan (4h) : Just posted to re-up on our FFL.

Zero2Cool (10h) : If healthy after, then thats all I care. Well, no drops would be nice

wpr (11h) : I made it through the 1st Q.

dfosterf (19h) : Just gotta figure out how.

dfosterf (19h) : Could have been a worse start, so there is that.

beast (20h) : Yeah, someone tell the Packers football season has started, seems like they weren't ready for it

Mucky Tundra (20h) : Sooooooo many penalties

Mucky Tundra (20h) : It may only be preseason, but this game is a trip to the dentist

Zero2Cool (21h) : Packers do bad -- FREAK OUT!!!!!!

Zero2Cool (21h) : Packers do good -- eh only preseason

dfosterf (21h) : Well that half was fun

Zero2Cool (23h) : Great, zayne is down

Zero2Cool (23h) : 13 minutes away from kickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkoffff

Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Had Celebration of Life for my uncle up north. wicked rain hope it dont come south

Mucky Tundra (9-Aug) : THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ARE PLAYING FOOTBALL TONIGHT!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!!!

Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Woo-hoo

TheKanataThrilla (9-Aug) : NFL Network is broadcasting the game tonight, but not in Canada. Not sure why as no local television is showing the game.

beast (8-Aug) : But the Return from IR designations had to be applied by the 53 man cutdown.

beast (8-Aug) : It's a new rule, so it's not clear, but my understanding was that they could be IR'd at any time

Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : *had to be IRed at 53

Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : beast, I thought the designate return from IR players had to be IR at cutdowns to 53, not before

beast (8-Aug) : It's a brand new rule, either last season or this season, prior, all pre-season IRs were done for the season

beast (8-Aug) : But the Packers would have to use one for their return from IR spots on him, when they cut down to 53.

beast (8-Aug) : I think the NFL recently changed the IR rules, so maybe the season might not be over for OL Glover.

Zero2Cool (8-Aug) : Packers star Howton, first NFLPA prez, dies at 95 😔

dfosterf (8-Aug) : Apparently it is too complicated for several to follow your simple instructions, but I digress

dfosterf (8-Aug) : Zero- Did you see what I posted about Voice of Reason and his wife? She posted over at fleaflicker that they are both "In"

Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Well, not crazy, it makes sense. Crazy I didn't notice/find it earlier

Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : it's crazy how one stored procedure to get data bogged everything down for speed here

dfosterf (7-Aug) : to herd cats or goldfish without a bowl. They reminded me of the annual assembly of our fantasy league

dfosterf (7-Aug) : out on a field trip, outfitting them with little yellow smocks. Most of the little folk were well behaved, but several were like trying

dfosterf (7-Aug) : Yesterday my wife and I spent the afternoon on the waterfront here in Alexandria, Va. A daycare company took about 15 three/four year olds

wpr (7-Aug) : seems faster. yay

dfosterf (7-Aug) : Wife of reason posted on the in/out thread on fleaflicker that both she and vor are in

Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : This page was generated in 0.135 seconds.

Mucky Tundra (7-Aug) : Tbh, I can never tell the difference in speed unless it's completely shitting the bed

Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Sure does feel like site is more snappy

Zero2Cool (6-Aug) : I thought that was the Lions OL

Mucky Tundra (6-Aug) : Travis Glover placed on IR; seasons over for him

Zero2Cool (6-Aug) : found bad sql in database, maybe site faster now?

dfosterf (5-Aug) : I'm going to call that a good move.

Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : Packers sign CB Corey Ballentine

Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : I'm not sure how to kill the draft order just yet so it's not so confusing.

Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : *to be able

Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : and because it's not a dynasty league (which makes a lot more sense to be ability to trade picks)

Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Oh I know; I was just exploring and it blew my mind that you could trade picks because of the whole reordering thing

Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Zero, I think I preferred my offer: your 1st for my 15th rounder

Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : Keep in mind, we do a draft reorder once all members locked in

Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : You can have my 12th Rd for your 2nd round

Please sign in to use Fan Shout

2025 Packers Schedule

Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM

LIONS

Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM

COMMANDERS

Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM

Browns

Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM

Cowboys

Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM

BENGALS

Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM

Cardinals

Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM

Steelers

Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM

PANTHERS

Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM

EAGLES

Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM

Giants

Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM

VIKINGS

Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM

Lions

Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM

BEARS

Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM

Broncos

Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM

Bears

Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM

RAVENS

Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM

Vikings