macbob
13 years ago

I really do believe with an elite D and an elite QB, the importance of a good RB goes way down. We could have easily won the SB with Jackson. Heck, next year, hypothetically speaking, our receivers are healthy and actually catch the ball, can we win it all with Jackson? I'd say yes.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



I agree with your first sentence if you change good RB to elite RB. You need a good RB to attract the defenses attention. Grant, Starks are good RBs.

Jackson? Easily won the SB with Jackson? Yeah, if our defense gets 3 turnovers and we abandon the running game maybe... :)

My opinion is Jackson's a passable receiving back, but is a poor fit for GB's ZBS. He's indecisive and is too slow hitting the hole.

Grant and Starks both are good enough to attract the defense's attention, and I don't think that we really need to make a move at RB if Grant's ankle is healing well.
macbob
13 years ago

As I do believe you have to run, you don't want to run "too much." Too many teams with elite RBs run too much. If you look at a lot of the past recent SB winners, they didn't have elite RBs and passed to open up the run.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Agreed up until the last 6 words. I actually agree with the words (passing can open up the run), but in my opinion that's not what you want to do offensively.

Offensively, passing is the way I'm going to sting you, and sting you hard. It's your primary weapon. In my opinion, the primary goal of a running game is to make it easier on your passing game, help your passing game be better.

Running has some other benefits as well--eating up clock so the other team has less opportunity to score, etc, but those are secondary to things like slowing down the pass rush, sucking safetys up into the box, tiring out the defensive line, improve your play action, etc--all with benefits to your passing game.
macbob
13 years ago

Macbob slights me all the time but he's backing up what he's saying.

"zombieslayer" wrote:


Damn. Was I that obvious??? Crud. :icon_smile:


Personally, I think Macbob's a utopian. The game has changed.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Not true! I deny it! I'm eligible to be a PackersHome member! I have a US birth certificate! I just can't show it to you...

damn birthers are everywhere...

what? utopian means what??? It doesn't mean I was born in Utopia??? Nevermind...

The way I look at it, I think a good run/pass mix is in the 55-60% pass / 40-45% run range, and Zombie's more 70%/30%.

So I figure that makes me a moderate, and you must be an extremist, Zombie. I'm just having trouble figuring if you're a right wing :profileright: or left wing :profileleft: extremist... :icon_smile:
zombieslayer
13 years ago



Agreed up until the last 6 words. I actually agree with the words (passing can open up the run), but in my opinion that's not what you want to do offensively.

Offensively, passing is the way I'm going to sting you, and sting you hard. It's your primary weapon. In my opinion, the primary goal of a running game is to make it easier on your passing game, help your passing game be better.

Running has some other benefits as well--eating up clock so the other team has less opportunity to score, etc, but those are secondary to things like slowing down the pass rush, sucking safetys up into the box, tiring out the defensive line, improve your play action, etc--all with benefits to your passing game.

"macbob" wrote:



Don't worry, I read all your other posts.

Just wanted to talk about eating the clock. Keep in mind that if the score is close and it's not the 4th Q, when you're eating the clock, you may be shooting yourself in the foot. Thus, another problem with run first teams.

I agree with the other parts, but like I said, you don't want to run too much. If you have a fat lead, then yes, run.

I do think that 10 years from now, it will be 70/30. As a historian, I study trends and that's the trend we're heading for.
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Zero2Cool
13 years ago

Those were wasted downs. We should have passed more so we could have gotten 40+ pts. 31-3? That's being too gentle. Running wasted valuable clock time that should have gone to Greg Jennings. Also, Rodgers never had 5 TD passes in a game. WTF? We could have easily broke the 5 barrier.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



I agree with the other parts, but like I said, you don't want to run too much. If you have a fat lead, then yes, run.

"zombieslayer" wrote:




Passing is higher risk than running. If you're in the last half of the 4th quarter, up by 3 touchdowns or more, the intelligent thing to do is mix some runs with your short passes to keep the clock ticking. This isn't Madden. There are no cheat sheets to winning a game. There are only strategies that some work more than others.

Just because something hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't be done, ahem, 6th seed in NFC winning it all for example.
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zombieslayer
13 years ago
Zero - That first quote was obvious satire.

The second quote I'm agreeing with what you said. You run to eat the clock and end the game.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Zero2Cool
13 years ago

Zero - That first quote was obvious satire.

The second quote I'm agreeing with what you said. You run to eat the clock and end the game.

"zombieslayer" wrote:


NO THE FIRST QUOTE WAS NOT SATIN!!!

You don't agree!!!!





I don't know, I've lost interest in this one.
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macbob
13 years ago

Zero - That first quote was obvious satire.

The second quote I'm agreeing with what you said. You run to eat the clock and end the game.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



I'm not a tremendous fan of running out the clock unless you're WAY up or down to the last couple of minutes. I think in general a team should stick with the offense that got them the lead in the first place.

For the most part, I feel the same about prevent defenses. Running out the clock too soon or going to a prevent too soon has all too often let a team back in the game when the outcome should not have been in doubt.

I was NOT happy with MM's playcalling at the end of the Eagles playoff game. Went to run-out-the-clock mode too early.
macbob
13 years ago

I do think that 10 years from now, it will be 70/30. As a historian, I study trends and that's the trend we're heading for.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



I had actually expected to see that trend in stats when I was doing research back to the 49ers from the 70s-90s and Packers back to early 90s through now. With the changes favoring the passing game, I expected the pass ratio now to be higher. But they weren't. They were virtually unchanged.

I think the reason why is that there appears to be a minimum run percentage to attract the defense's attention, and 30% seems to be below the threshhold--if you're running too infrequently, the defenses seem to ignore the run and concentrate on stopping the pass.

Multiple times during this past season Dom Capers and various defensive players say their #1 goal is to stop the opposing team's rushing attack to force the opposing offenst to be one-dimensional. Then the D pins their ears back and gets after the QB.

Frankly, if that's the goal of one of the elite defenses in the league then as an offensive coordinator I want to avoid the situation where the D can pin their ears back and get after my QB. Which appears to mean running at a low-to-mid 40s% clip, based on historical stats.
Zero2Cool
12 years ago

There was no correlation between having Barry Sanders, and winning, so no, he is also not an elite running back.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland 



If you don't think Barry Sanders was an elite running back, you're an idiot and I mean that in a friendly way. [grin1]
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Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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