Elite RBs are a waste of money· Page 7

macbob
Veteran Member

13 years ago

I really do believe with an elite D and an elite QB, the importance of a good RB goes way down. We could have easily won the SB with Jackson. Heck, next year, hypothetically speaking, our receivers are healthy and actually catch the ball, can we win it all with Jackson? I'd say yes.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

I agree with your first sentence if you change good RB to elite RB. You need a good RB to attract the defenses attention. Grant, Starks are good RBs.

Jackson? Easily won the SB with Jackson? Yeah, if our defense gets 3 turnovers and we abandon the running game maybe... :)

My opinion is Jackson's a passable receiving back, but is a poor fit for GB's ZBS. He's indecisive and is too slow hitting the hole.

Grant and Starks both are good enough to attract the defense's attention, and I don't think that we really need to make a move at RB if Grant's ankle is healing well.

macbob
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#62

As I do believe you have to run, you don't want to run "too much." Too many teams with elite RBs run too much. If you look at a lot of the past recent SB winners, they didn't have elite RBs and passed to open up the run.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Agreed up until the last 6 words. I actually agree with the words (passing can open up the run), but in my opinion that's not what you want to do offensively.

Offensively, passing is the way I'm going to sting you, and sting you hard. It's your primary weapon. In my opinion, the primary goal of a running game is to make it easier on your passing game, help your passing game be better.

Running has some other benefits as well--eating up clock so the other team has less opportunity to score, etc, but those are secondary to things like slowing down the pass rush, sucking safetys up into the box, tiring out the defensive line, improve your play action, etc--all with benefits to your passing game.

macbob
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#63

Macbob slights me all the time but he's backing up what he's saying.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Damn. Was I that obvious??? Crud. :icon_smile:

Personally, I think Macbob's a utopian. The game has changed.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Not true! I deny it! I'm eligible to be a PackersHome member! I have a US birth certificate! I just can't show it to you...

damn birthers are everywhere...

what? utopian means what??? It doesn't mean I was born in Utopia??? Nevermind...

The way I look at it, I think a good run/pass mix is in the 55-60% pass / 40-45% run range, and Zombie's more 70%/30%.

So I figure that makes me a moderate, and you must be an extremist, Zombie. I'm just having trouble figuring if you're a right wing :profileright: or left wing :profileleft: extremist... :icon_smile:

zombieslayer
Registered Topic Starter

13 years ago

#64

"macbob" wrote:

Don't worry, I read all your other posts.

Just wanted to talk about eating the clock. Keep in mind that if the score is close and it's not the 4th Q, when you're eating the clock, you may be shooting yourself in the foot. Thus, another problem with run first teams.

I agree with the other parts, but like I said, you don't want to run too much. If you have a fat lead, then yes, run.

I do think that 10 years from now, it will be 70/30. As a historian, I study trends and that's the trend we're heading for.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

13 years ago

#65

Those were wasted downs. We should have passed more so we could have gotten 40+ pts. 31-3? That's being too gentle. Running wasted valuable clock time that should have gone to Greg Jennings. Also, Rodgers never had 5 TD passes in a game. WTF? We could have easily broke the 5 barrier.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

I agree with the other parts, but like I said, you don't want to run too much. If you have a fat lead, then yes, run.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Passing is higher risk than running. If you're in the last half of the 4th quarter, up by 3 touchdowns or more, the intelligent thing to do is mix some runs with your short passes to keep the clock ticking. This isn't Madden. There are no cheat sheets to winning a game. There are only strategies that some work more than others.

Just because something hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't be done, ahem, 6th seed in NFC winning it all for example.

zombieslayer
Registered Topic Starter

13 years ago

#66

Zero - That first quote was obvious satire.

The second quote I'm agreeing with what you said. You run to eat the clock and end the game.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

13 years ago

#67

Zero - That first quote was obvious satire.

The second quote I'm agreeing with what you said. You run to eat the clock and end the game.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

NO THE FIRST QUOTE WAS NOT SATIN!!!

You don't agree!!!!

I don't know, I've lost interest in this one.

macbob
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#68

Zero - That first quote was obvious satire.

The second quote I'm agreeing with what you said. You run to eat the clock and end the game.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

I'm not a tremendous fan of running out the clock unless you're WAY up or down to the last couple of minutes. I think in general a team should stick with the offense that got them the lead in the first place.

For the most part, I feel the same about prevent defenses. Running out the clock too soon or going to a prevent too soon has all too often let a team back in the game when the outcome should not have been in doubt.

I was NOT happy with MM's playcalling at the end of the Eagles playoff game. Went to run-out-the-clock mode too early.

macbob
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#69

I do think that 10 years from now, it will be 70/30. As a historian, I study trends and that's the trend we're heading for.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

I had actually expected to see that trend in stats when I was doing research back to the 49ers from the 70s-90s and Packers back to early 90s through now. With the changes favoring the passing game, I expected the pass ratio now to be higher. But they weren't. They were virtually unchanged.

I think the reason why is that there appears to be a minimum run percentage to attract the defense's attention, and 30% seems to be below the threshhold--if you're running too infrequently, the defenses seem to ignore the run and concentrate on stopping the pass.

Multiple times during this past season Dom Capers and various defensive players say their #1 goal is to stop the opposing team's rushing attack to force the opposing offenst to be one-dimensional. Then the D pins their ears back and gets after the QB.

Frankly, if that's the goal of one of the elite defenses in the league then as an offensive coordinator I want to avoid the situation where the D can pin their ears back and get after my QB. Which appears to mean running at a low-to-mid 40s% clip, based on historical stats.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

11 years ago

#70

There was no correlation between having Barry Sanders, and winning, so no, he is also not an elite running back.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland

If you don't think Barry Sanders was an elite running back, you're an idiot and I mean that in a friendly way. [grin1]

Important Information:

The PACKERSHOME uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More Details Close

Fan Shout

beast (4h) : In other news, the Green Bay Packers have signed Zero2Cool to update their website 😋 jk

beast (7h) : Might just re-sign the kicker we got

beast (7h) : Are there any kickers worth drafting next year?

Zero2Cool (7h) : Preston Smith for Malik Willis

Mucky Tundra (7h) : Getting a 7th rounder from the Stillers

Zero2Cool (7h) : At least we get 7th round pick now!! HELLO NEW KICKER

Mucky Tundra (7h) : Steelers getting a premier lockdown corner!

Zero2Cool (7h) : Packers are trading edge rusher Preston Smith to the Pittsburgh Steelers, per sources.

Mucky Tundra (7h) : Preston Smith traded to the Steelers!!!!

Zero2Cool (9h) : CB Marshon Lattimore to Commanders

Zero2Cool (13h) : Bears are sending RB Khalil Herbert to the Bengals, per sources.

Zero2Cool (13h) : ZaDarius Smith continues his "north" tour.

Zero2Cool (14h) : Let the Chiefs trade a 5th for him

Zero2Cool (14h) : Nearing 30, large contract, nope.

Martha Careful (5-Nov) : any interest in Marshon Lattimore?

Zero2Cool (4-Nov) : What does NFL do if they're over cap?

Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : They've been able to constantly push it out through extensions, void years etc but they're in the hole by 72 million next year I believe

hardrocker950 (4-Nov) : Seems the Saints are always in cap hell

Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : Saints HC job is not an envious one; gonna be in cap hell for 3 years

Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : Dennis Allen has now been fired twice mid-season with Derek Carr as his starting QB

Zero2Cool (4-Nov) : Kuhn let go

beast (4-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers would have any interest in Z. Smith, probably not

Zero2Cool (4-Nov) : Shefter says Browns and Lions will figure out how to get a deal done for Za'Darius Smith..

Zero2Cool (4-Nov) : Packers are more likely to have 1,000 yard rusher than 4,000 yard passer

Zero2Cool (3-Nov) : It's raining hard.

Zero2Cool (3-Nov) : Packers inactives vs. Lions: CB Jaire Alexander S Evan Williams C Josh Myers Non-injury inactives: WR Malik Heath OL Travis Glover DE Bren

packerfanoutwest (3-Nov) : Malik Willis: My focus is helping the Packers win, not proving I can start elsewhere. But he could

Zero2Cool (1-Nov) : I had Texans, but the loss of another WR flipped me

wpr (1-Nov) : I thought about taking the Jets but they've been a disaster. Losing to the Pats last week

Zero2Cool (1-Nov) : Surprised more didn't pick Jets in Pick'em.

Please sign in to use Fan Shout

2024 Packers Schedule

Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM

Eagles

29 - 34

Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM

COLTS

16 - 10

Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM

Titans

30 - 14

Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM

VIKINGS

29 - 31

Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM

Rams

24 - 19

Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM

CARDINALS

34 - 13

Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM

TEXANS

24 - 22

Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM

Jaguars

30 - 27

Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM

LIONS

14 - 24

Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM

Bears

Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM

49ERS

Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM

DOLPHINS

Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM

Lions

Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM

Seahawks

Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM

SAINTS

Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM

Vikings

Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM

BEARS