Pack93z
14 years ago
I used an outside the bounds as why there should be laws upon the books.. opposing Non's view that the laws should be abolished or removed. The thread has transitioned into a debate about the laws, little on the OP, at least in my interpretation.

Point was, unclear I guess, that we have to have some sort of law preventing anyone say above a couple years older to start hooking up with teenagers. I should have quoted the point better.

However, I do believe the laws are unjust and need to be changed; and furthermore, I believe they will be. I believe that eventually, there will be successful legal challenges to a lot of the laws currently on the books

"NonStop" wrote:


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
14 years ago

It also ignores the real issue. full grown adults preying on the youth for a quick roll in the hay. There comes the rub, where do you drawn the line to define an adult.. in most circumstances that is 18. Hence the age structure, however the states with a relative age clause have it more correct IMO. If they are within say 4 years of each other, I think little of it.. say a 17 year old hooking up with a 21 year old. Just better not be my daughter. ;)

I sorry, if you are a 30 year drone.. you have no business praying on a young adult under 18.

"DakotaT" wrote:



How did we get to the creepy 30 year old combing the high schools? Why should an 18 year old guy be charged with raping his younger girlfriend? His girlfriend is probably more mature than he is. I'm with Non on this issue but not with the Chmura issue.

"pack93z" wrote:



My point was not to remove the law from the books, but modify them following some sort of age guideline, say if the girl/boy is under 18, you can't be further than X years older than them.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
In Wisconsin it goes ...
14 can not consent to anyone
15 can consent to a partner of age 19
16 can consent to a partner of age 20
17 is considered an adult in the laws eyes


That's what I read in the statutes in '01. I'm not sure if it's true now or not, but its how I got my case reduced.
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Pack93z
14 years ago
Current as 07'... nothing referring to the bracketing that you mention. 2003 document didn't have it either.. wonder when it changed or if they use another state case to determine a plea down.


http://www.sexlaws.org/files/WisStat0948.pdf 

948.02 Sexual assault of a child. (1) FIRST DEGREE
SEXUAL ASSAULT. Whoever has sexual contact or sexual intercourse
with a person who has not attained the age of 13 years is
guilty of one of the following:
(a) If the sexual contact or sexual intercourse resulted in great
bodily harm to the person, a Class A felony.
(b) If the sexual contact or sexual intercourse did not result in
great bodily harm to the person, a Class B felony.
NOTE: Sub. (1) is affected by 2005 Wis. Acts 430 and 437. The 2 treatments
are mutually inconsistent. Sub. (1) is shown as affected by the last enacted act,
2005 Wis. Act 437. As affected by 2005 Wis. Act 430, it reads:
(1)FIRST DEGREE SEXUAL ASSAULT (a) In this subsection, sexual intercourse
means vulvar penetration as well as cunnilingus, fellatio, or anal intercourse
between persons or any intrusion of any inanimate object into the genital or anal
opening either by the defendant or upon the defendants instruction. The emission
of semen is not required.
(b) Whoever has sexual intercourse with a person who has not attained the
age of 12 years is guilty of a Class B felony.
(c) Whoever has sexual intercourse with a person who has not attained the
age of 16 years by use or threat of force or violence is guilty of a Class B felony.
(d) Whoever has sexual contact with a person who has not attained the age
of 16 years by use or threat of force or violence is guilty of a Class B felony if the
actor is at least 18 years of age when the sexual contact occurs.
(e) Whoever has sexual contact with a person who has not attained the age
of 13 years is guilty of a Class B felony.
(2) SECOND DEGREE SEXUAL ASSAULT. Whoever has sexual
contact or sexual intercourse with a person who has not attained
the age of 16 years is guilty of a Class C felony.
(3) FAILURE TO ACT. A person responsible for the welfare of
a child who has not attained the age of 16 years is guilty of a Class
F felony if that person has knowledge that another person intends
to have, is having or has had sexual intercourse or sexual contact
with the child, is physically and emotionally capable of taking
action which will prevent the intercourse or contact from taking
place or being repeated, fails to take that action and the failure to
act exposes the child to an unreasonable risk that intercourse or
contact may occur between the child and the other person or facilitates
the intercourse or contact that does occur between the child
and the other person.
(4) MARRIAGE NOT A BAR TO PROSECUTION. A defendant shall
not be presumed to be incapable of violating this section because
of marriage to the complainant.
(5) DEATH OF VICTIM. This section applies whether a victim is
dead or alive at the time of the sexual contact or sexual intercourse.

History: 1987 a. 332; 1989 a. 31; 1995 a. 14, 69; 2001 a. 109; 2005 a. 430, 437.
Relevant evidence in child sexual assault cases is discussed. In Interest of Michael
R.B. 175 Wis. 2d 713, 499 N.W.2d 641 (1993).
Limits relating to expert testimony regarding child sex abuse victims is discussed.
State v. Hernandez, 192 Wis. 2d 251, 531 N.W.2d 348 (Ct. App. 1995).
The criminalization, under sub. (2), of consensual sexual relations with a child
does not violate the defendants constitutionally protected privacy rights. State v.
Fisher, 211 Wis. 2d 665, 565 N.W.2d 565 (Ct. App. 1997), 961764.
Second degree sexual assault under sub. (2) is a lesser included offense of first
degree sexual assault under sub. (1). State v. Moua, 215 Wis. 2d 510, 573 N.W.2d
210 (Ct. App. 1997).
For a guilty plea to a sexual assault charge to be knowingly made, a defendant need
not be informed of the potential of being required to register as a convicted sex
offender under s. 301.45 or that failure to register could result in imprisonment, as the
commitment is a collateral, not direct, consequence of the plea. State v. Bollig, 2000
WI 6, 232 Wis. 2d 561, 605 N.W.2d 199, 982196.
Expert evidence of sexual immaturity is relevant to a preadolescents affirmative
defense that he or she is not capable of having sexual contact with the purpose of
becoming sexually aroused or gratified. State v. Stephen T. 2002 WI App 3, 250 Wis.
2d 26, 643 N.W.2d 151, 003045.
That the intended victim was actually an adult was not a bar to bringing the charge
of attempted 2nd degree sexual assault of a child. The fictitiousness of the victim is
an extraneous factor beyond the defendants control within the meaning of the
attempt statute. State v. Grimm, 2002 WI App 242, 258 Wis. 2d 166, 653 N.W.2d 284,
010138.
Section 939.22 (19) includes female and male breasts as each is the breast of a
human being. The touching of a boys breast constitutes sexual contact under sub.
(2). State v. Forster, 2003 WI App 29, 260 Wis. 2d 149, 659 N.W.2d 144, 020602.
Sub. (2), in conjunction with ss. 939.23 and 939.43 (2), precludes a defense predicated
on a childs intentional age misrepresentation. The statutes do not violate an
accuseds rights under the 14th amendment to the U. S. Constitution. State v.
Jadowski 2004 WI 68, 272 Wis. 2d 418, 680 N.W.2d 418, 031493.
The consent of the child in a sub. (2) violation is not relevant. Yet if the defendant
asserts that she did not consent to the intercourse and that she was raped by the child,
the issue of her consent becomes paramount. If the defendant was raped, the act of
having sexual intercourse with a child does not constitute a crime. State v. Lackershire,
2007 WI 74, ___ Wis. 2d ___, 734 N.W.2d 23, 051189.
The constitutionality of this statute is upheld. Sweeney v. Smith, 9 F. Supp. 2d 1026
(1998).
Statutory Rape in Wisconsin: History, Rationale, and the Need for Reform. Olszewski.
89 MLR 693 (2005)
.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
14 years ago

if humans aren't supposed to have sex until they're 18, then God is a fucking moron for causing them to go into puberty between the ages of 12 and 14.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



+1 for this.

If your child is not mentally and emotionally ready for sex when they hit puberty, you as a parent are a FAILURE.

Their body is ready. They are biologically ready. How come they're not mentally and emotionally ready? I'll tell you why. It's because parents are idiots.

EDIT - by the way, contraceptives if used correctly work. Pill + condom. It's much more dangerous for kids to drive than it is for them to have sex if they're properly prepared.
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Porforis
14 years ago

In Wisconsin it goes ...
14 can not consent to anyone
15 can consent to a partner of age 19
16 can consent to a partner of age 20
17 is considered an adult in the laws eyes


That's what I read in the statutes in '01. I'm not sure if it's true now or not, but its how I got my case reduced.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I'd have to agree with those laws. As shitty and unaccommodating to exceptions as laws can be sometimes.
4PackGirl
14 years ago

if humans aren't supposed to have sex until they're 18, then God is a fucking moron for causing them to go into puberty between the ages of 12 and 14.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



+1 for this.

If your child is not mentally and emotionally ready for sex when they hit puberty, you as a parent are a FAILURE.

Their body is ready. They are biologically ready. How come they're not mentally and emotionally ready? I'll tell you why. It's because parents are idiots.

EDIT - by the way, contraceptives if used correctly work. Pill + condom. It's much more dangerous for kids to drive than it is for them to have sex if they're properly prepared.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



sorry zombie but i'm callin bullshit on this one. my parents talked to me about sex, were very strong in their morals, & told me to wait. but i didn't. it had NOTHING to do with their parenting skills. i'm a headstrong female - now it's a good thing - when i was a teen, not so much.
Porforis
14 years ago

if humans aren't supposed to have sex until they're 18, then God is a fucking moron for causing them to go into puberty between the ages of 12 and 14.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



+1 for this.

If your child is not mentally and emotionally ready for sex when they hit puberty, you as a parent are a FAILURE.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I'm really not sure how to address the assertion that a 12 year old will typically be emotionally and mentally ready to have sex, and most importantly, be able to make responsible decisions about who/when. And it always being the fault of the parent if they're not.

That second part is exactly why these laws are in place, operating under the idea that someone that is 12, 14 cannot be expected to have the mental maturity to make major decisions about their body. Let's look at this a different way.

Should a 12 year old be able to refuse treatment for a disease without parental consent? What if the parent wants the child treated and the child doesn't want to be treated?

Should a 12 year old be able to sign a legally binding contract for something major like a loan?

I'm not sure what else to tell you if you say yes to the above two, or start blaming the parents again. Children are quite a bit more easily manipulated than adults, fact. Just like a major contractual obligation or treatment for a medical condition, deciding to have sex has definite consequences.

As a parent, are you going to be sure that your 12 year old understands that before they have sex with someone, they should have that person be tested for STDs and provide the resultes?
Porforis
14 years ago

sorry zombie but i'm callin bullshit on this one. my parents talked to me about sex, were very strong in their morals, & told me to wait. but i didn't. it had NOTHING to do with their parenting skills. i'm a headstrong female - now it's a good thing - when i was a teen, not so much.

"4PackGirl" wrote:



I'm guessing that you'll be told that you're erroneously focusing on morals and the concept of waiting. I accept that it's a difference in opinion and upbringing that leads us to differences on what we consider to be acceptable sexual activity. My ideas of morals and acceptable behavior differ from others', it's not a matter of me being right and them wrong or vice versa... Nobody needs to be wrong here.

However, the point I'm still not seeing people address that you bring up is the teen part. You can't blame parents for everything, sometimes teens will do stupid things even if you're the perfect parent. Blaming everything on parenting so absolutely takes away all responsibility from the teen. If you're going to do that, why not argue that parental consent should be required for underage sex?
DakotaT
14 years ago


sorry zombie but i'm callin bullshit on this one. my parents talked to me about sex, were very strong in their morals, & told me to wait. but i didn't. it had NOTHING to do with their parenting skills. i'm a headstrong female - now it's a good thing - when i was a teen, not so much.

"4PackGirl" wrote:



The possibilities for a response to this are endless. All I know is that I should have travelled through Iowa as a teenager.
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