Zero2Cool
15 years ago

I am unimpressed.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

We know. Trust me, we know.
UserPostedImage
zombieslayer
15 years ago
Rock gets a +1 for this post.

I'm so pissed right now I want to leave a bag of flaming poo on Dom Caper's front porch then ding dong doorbell ditch his ass.

His conservative playcalling cost us the game.
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
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all_about_da_packers
15 years ago
Um, let's settle down a bit.

Firstly, I have to disagree with Rock in his analysis; way too subjective and to be blunt he got it wrong. I guessed yesterday that Bell was at fault, and Leroy Butler confirmed that he was in his 5 Questions series.

Theres no way that Bell should be inside of that receiver. He should be outside that receiver so he can push him toward Atari Bigby.


Link 

Bigby, Collins, and Woodson are playing 3 deep safety. The whole emphasis of the play should be to force your guys inside, towards help. You have two of the better ball hawks in the league in Woodson and Collins , free to roam, and then you have Bigby as help, too. You force your guy inside, towards the help, and force Ben to throw into a crowd.

So in the end, Atari was doing fine, but Bell not so much so.

Bell made a mental blip, which should not be surprising considering he has had less than a month to digest Capers heavy playbook.



Capers is not at fault, IMO. People are unbelievably mad at him... which I can understand, but you can't blame Capers for having to use a 4th CB that is young and inexperienced, and also hasn't had a lot of time to understand his assignments.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
all_about_da_packers
15 years ago


How many ways does this coaching staff have to recognize/have it beat into their friggin' heads that the prevent has not and will not friggin' work against a good quarterback?

Dom gave that game away.

Better wake up quick, Dom. Stubborn stupid shit, imo

"dfosterf" wrote:




You know, with all due respect, this post is downright idiotic. I can understand the anger of losing that game, of how we should have won and everything... But you honestly shouldn't take a series alone in and of itself to come to conclusions.

Before the final drive, Big Ben carved our defense. Even saying that is an understatement.

Hell, first play of the game, Bush gets beat. Straight man coverage, 4 rushing, and we got burned. You don't think Capers is aware of this when deciding to go to Prevent?

As a DC, you put your players in position to make plays. How many times on the final drive were our players in position to make plays? A heck of a lot.

Chillar commits a penalty, wipes out an INT. Woodson can't hold on to an INT. Jenkins tries to tackle Roethlisberger high, and he can't bring him down. Tramon has a chance to INT a pass for Holmes, he drops it. That's four right there. For what it's worth, Bob McGinn lists the number of times the Packers missed ending the game on the final Steelers drive at 6. Out of 15 plays, then, McGinn counts the Packers as having been in position to close out the game 6 times.


Perhaps we should read what Capers has to say, about going to prevent.

"Obviously, you get influenced when on the first play of the game they threw the ball over the top of us for a touchdown ... You don't want to let them go the distance in one play, you want to make them have to work and make a play."



Insider article link 


Look, you want to be mad at Capers for underestimating the inexperience his DBs had... fine. You want to blame Capers, who has coached DBs himself, for not making sure his young players knew what to do, be my guest.


To start attacking Capers for irrationally running Prevent on the final drive is to come off as engaging in nonsensical rambling.

Which, to be quite frank, a few people seem to be doing in the wake of the loss.
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Packers_Finland
15 years ago
Wouldn't know how to do without these pics and analysis Rock. +1 again.

Josh Bell should be our nickel back.
This is a placeholder
rodgehodge
15 years ago
another great post, +1

Wouldn't know how to do without these pics and analysis Rock. +1 again.

Josh Bell should be our nickel back.

"Packers_Finland" wrote:



I have to agree with that. I know he gave up the touchdown, but I was actually pretty impressed with how well Bell played that down considering he's only a second year player and new to the team. Like other people have said, not a lot of corners are going to be able to make that play, and it looks like he should have had some help over the top (presumably Bigby judging from this post). Anyway, judging by what little I saw of Bell in this game I'd like to see him given a chance over Bush for sure.
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Rockmolder
15 years ago

Um, let's settle down a bit.

Firstly, I have to disagree with Rock in his analysis; way too subjective and to be blunt he got it wrong. I guessed yesterday that Bell was at fault, and Leroy Butler confirmed that he was in his 5 Questions series.

Theres no way that Bell should be inside of that receiver. He should be outside that receiver so he can push him toward Atari Bigby.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:


Link 

Bigby, Collins, and Woodson are playing 3 deep safety. The whole emphasis of the play should be to force your guys inside, towards help. You have two of the better ball hawks in the league in Woodson and Collins , free to roam, and then you have Bigby as help, too. You force your guy inside, towards the help, and force Ben to throw into a crowd.

So in the end, Atari was doing fine, but Bell not so much so.

Bell made a mental blip, which should not be surprising considering he has had less than a month to digest Capers heavy playbook.



Capers is not at fault, IMO. People are unbelievably mad at him... which I can understand, but you can't blame Capers for having to use a 4th CB that is young and inexperienced, and also hasn't had a lot of time to understand his assignments.



I agree with you. Like I stated, the call was actually quite nice, assuming it was a regular cover 3 man. There should be no way that you give up a huge TD in that case.

The only thing I put on Dom is the personnel on the field. Mainly who's rushing the passer.

But, anyway, Butler is right. Of course he is. Only problem I have is that, on the third pic, Bigby is just running into his own zone. He was defending somewhere as far back as the goalpost when that ball was thrown. What exactly was Bell supposed to lead him into? Open field? Bigby was way out of position. Had Bell done his assigned job, we'd be over here blaming Bigby for being out of position or Bell for being out of position.

Now whether Bell knew that he got not help from Bigby is a mistery. I'm guessing that he didn't, and that he just played it wrong, but for me, the blame in this one falls on Bigby. He's the one who wasn't where he should be. He's the one that forced Bell to go for the ball, anyway.
dfosterf
15 years ago


How many ways does this coaching staff have to recognize/have it beat into their friggin' heads that the prevent has not and will not friggin' work against a good quarterback?

Dom gave that game away.

Better wake up quick, Dom. Stubborn stupid shit, imo

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:




You know, with all due respect, this post is downright idiotic. I can understand the anger of losing that game, of how we should have won and everything... But you honestly shouldn't take a series alone in and of itself to come to conclusions.

Before the final drive, Big Ben carved our defense. Even saying that is an understatement.

Hell, first play of the game, Bush gets beat. Straight man coverage, 4 rushing, and we got burned. You don't think Capers is aware of this when deciding to go to Prevent?

As a DC, you put your players in position to make plays. How many times on the final drive were our players in position to make plays? A heck of a lot.

Chillar commits a penalty, wipes out an INT. Woodson can't hold on to an INT. Jenkins tries to tackle Roethlisberger high, and he can't bring him down. Tramon has a chance to INT a pass for Holmes, he drops it. That's four right there. For what it's worth, Bob McGinn lists the number of times the Packers missed ending the game on the final Steelers drive at 6. Out of 15 plays, then, McGinn counts the Packers as having been in position to close out the game 6 times.


Perhaps we should read what Capers has to say, about going to prevent.

"Obviously, you get influenced when on the first play of the game they threw the ball over the top of us for a touchdown ... You don't want to let them go the distance in one play, you want to make them have to work and make a play."

"dfosterf" wrote:



Insider article link 


Look, you want to be mad at Capers for underestimating the inexperience his DBs had... fine. You want to blame Capers, who has coached DBs himself, for not making sure his young players knew what to do, be my guest.


To start attacking Capers for irrationally running Prevent on the final drive is to come off as engaging in nonsensical rambling.

Which, to be quite frank, a few people seem to be doing in the wake of the loss.



I was talking about the Green Bay vs. Pittsburgh game. You must have been watching a different one.

Not only did we have no pressure on Big Ben, we had no potential for one. I personally never mentioned the secondary, because without pass pressure, I don't expect anything but precisely what happened. 3 man rush...consisting of 3 worn-out Defensive linemen? Dom Capers can say (as can you) whatever they want, however irrational in the face of the obvious evidence. I know what I saw. Maybe at some point when we are all sitting on our couch in the off-season, someone will bother to go back and analyze just how effective our #2 on paper defense was when we rushed 3. I already know the answer.
15 years ago
Great analysis and screen caps.

You should add another screen capture showing Jolly after he beat his blocker and was practically dragged down by his jersey from behind, trying to get to Ben.
UserPostedImage
all_about_da_packers
15 years ago

But, anyway, Butler is right. Of course he is. Only problem I have is that, on the third pic, Bigby is just running into his own zone. He was defending somewhere as far back as the goalpost when that ball was thrown. What exactly was Bell supposed to lead him into? Open field? Bigby was way out of position.

"Rockmolder" wrote:




Bigby being as far as the goalpost can't be right.... three deep safety calls for three safties on the goal line.


As for Bigby running into his zone, it's his job to read an react. It might be the case that once he saw Wallace heading towards the sideline, he decided to cheat by sliding over into Collins area.

You do raise an interesting point, and Bigby may very well have been out of position. But then again, he may have been out of position because he saw Bell forcing his guy outside, and so he decided to creep over to the side with that had more receivers emerging.
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Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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