Rockmolder
15 years ago
If there's one call that has been scrutinized, and rightfully so, it has been the prevent call with 3 second left on the clock that cost us the game.

Or actually, the prevent plays throughout that drive.

We went up against an offense and offensive line that has had problems picking up pressure all season long and a QB who holds on to the ball way too long. Yet, we preferred to bring 3 on nearly every play instead of brining the standard 4 or blitzing with an extra guy or 2.

This problems on the Steelers' O-line became even more obvious when Jenkins went through nearly untouched and got to Ben, who broke out of the poor tackle and scrambled, only to have Raji cut of his escape route and having to throw it away.

Although I dont like prevent defense, and I don't think that we would've been put in as bad a position as we where, had we blitzed a little more, a prevent call with 3 seconds left on the clock, isn't too bad a call. You zone out the end-zone and force the QB to dump it off and hope for a miracle.

Or, at least, that's the theory behind it.

Obviously, that isn't exactly what happened in our case.

Let's start with the personnel on this play.

We're playing a 2-3-6. Obviously, we're playing prevent.

On the D-line, we have Jolly and Wynn.

I'm going to assume that Jenkins and Raji where out of gas on this one. Can't imagine that Capers would want these guys out there over them. I'd like to think that your main pass rushers can toughen up and play this one last play, but they are 300 and 340 lbs, respectively, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

At LB, I think we're playing Matthews, Barnett and Poppinga. Cant see it very well. Matthews is on the TE, Barnett is on the RB and Poppinga is rushing the passer.

Williams, Bell and Bush are in man against the receivers. Woodson, Collins and Bigby are playing deep zone.

On the field, it looks like this.

UserPostedImage

If you added up the personnel tasks, you figured out that we're playing a cover 3 man. Most of our corners are giving the receivers quite a cushion and, thus, a free release. Only Williams is up close to the receiver.

UserPostedImage

Our guys can't get any pressure on Roethlisberger, who gets about 10 seconds in the pocket before throwing it in for the TD. Mike Bell was covering Wallace pretty well, but got no safety help at all.

UserPostedImage

On this picture Bigby is just running over to get into his regular zone (Marked as '1'). Had Bigby been there all along, Bell could've played underneath and batted the ball down. I assume that Atari made a mental mistake on this one, though, and got lured to the side where 4 Steelers receivers where running to, guessing that this play would be a hail mary. That resulted in getting Bell isolated on rookie WR Wallace. A match up that Ben had some trust in, apparently, as he threw it into some good coverage.

There is one different theory I can think off, and that is that the Packers where playing man all around, having double coverage on the Steelers' 3 best receivers in Ward, Holmes and Miller, which would result in an overload to the right, as Wallace was the only receiver going left.

If that's the case, Capers should throw that page out of his playbook. If anyone, you want Woodson in single coverage, and even then it's a weird play.

Lastly, Bell's play on the ball.

Personally, I think he did just about everything right for the situation he was in. He played close up against the receiver, not having any help over the top. He nearly made quite a play, as he did get his hand in between Wallace's hands while having to make that hard cut.

UserPostedImage

In hindsight, maybe he should've gone for a force out, but there's just a couple of corners in the league who bat that ball down or get the guy out of bounds.

Let's just hope that we won't 'prevent' another offense all the way down to our end-zone. This sequence of calls reminded me an awfull lot of Bob Sanders' vanilla defenses.... [url=index.php?name=Pro_News&aid=126]full article[/url].
dfosterf
15 years ago
+1 Rock. Good stuff.

This friggin' prevent shit still has me fuming...

Prevent you from winning, is what they should call it.

Hey Dom, have you heard? It isn't how you start, it's how you finish in this league. We are supposed to be honing our vaunted defense right about now.

What a crock. I am not embarrassed about that game, but the end of it is very embarrassing, not so much that last play, but the whole mindset and defensive philosophy that would allow it to occur.

How many ways does this coaching staff have to recognize/have it beat into their friggin' heads that the prevent has not and will not friggin' work against a good quarterback?

Dom gave that game away.

You think that shit will work against Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Donovan Mcnabb or Brett Favre?

Better wake up quick, Dom. Stubborn stupid shit, imo
IronMan
15 years ago
You shouldn't ever question the coaches because they are never wrong. And they know more about the game than us, so we have no right to criticize them. EVER.

(sarcasm)
doddpower
15 years ago

+1 Rock. Good stuff.

This friggin' prevent shit still has me fuming...

Prevent you from winning, is what they should call it.

Hey Dom, have you heard? It isn't how you start, it's how you finish in this league. We are supposed to be honing our vaunted defense right about now.

What a crock. I am not embarrassed about that game, but the end of it is very embarrassing, not so much that last play, but the whole mindset and defensive philosophy that would allow it to occur.

How many ways does this coaching staff have to recognize/have it beat into their friggin' heads that the prevent has not and will not friggin' work against a good quarterback?

Dom gave that game away.

You think that shit will work against Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Donovan Mcnabb or Brett Favre?

Better wake up quick, Dom. Stubborn stupid shit, imo

"dfosterf" wrote:



I put a lot of the blame on Capers for this loss. He's a great defensive coordinator, for sure. Don't get me wrong. I think he just called a terrible game, at least when it mattered. Not only do we run a prevent defense on the last play, but pretty much every play near the end of that drive. The offense knew EXACTLY what they were going to get.

Also, I think if you're only going to rush a few people, your best pass rusher HAS to be one of them. Putting Matthews in coverage was another mistake. It just seems to be like we conceded any pass rush on those last plays. Matthews has a crazy motor, hadn't been rushing the QB in a few plays at least. Put him on the line and tear him lose on the QB.

Ahhhh, I don't know. I'm just not happy with the defensive calls. Let's hope Dom learns from this game, and this doesn't happen again.
British
15 years ago
Thanks for the breakdown Rock.

Capers is played millions of dollars to stop drives just like that.

They had little time, a long way to go, a feeble OLine and one timeout.

I hope Capers is kicking himself all week and learns from it.
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago


UserPostedImage

On this picture Bigby is just running over to get into his regular zone (Marked as '1'). Had Bigby been there all along, Bell could've played underneath and batted the ball down. I assume that Atari made a mental mistake on this one, though, and got lured to the side where 4 Steelers receivers where running to, guessing that this play would be a hail mary. That resulted in getting Bell isolated on rookie WR Wallace. A match up that Ben had some trust in, apparently, as he threw it into some good coverage.

There is one different theory I can think off, and that is that the Packers where playing man all around, having double coverage on the Steelers' 3 best receivers in Ward, Holmes and Miller, which would result in an overload to the right, as Wallace was the only receiver going left.
[url=index.php?name=Pro_News&aid=126]full article[/url].

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Another great post, Rock. +1

This pic disturbs me. Okay, the Pitt guy makes a great catch despite damn fine coverage by Bell. TD, game over, yadda yadda yadda.

But there's three other guys in the picture, and no other Pitt guy inside. Bigby's got this appearance of "oh fuck, I fucked this up." Bush looks like he's standing there doing a statue imitation. And the guy whose legs are only showing (Collins perhaps) looks no better.

Okay, I understand. It's zone coverage. Okay, I understand, it's a still picture. Okay, I understand, the ball has been in the air for a bit by the time the pic is snapped. But those three guys look like they are "off" the receivers even more than they are in the opening pic.

But still. It isn't the touchdown catch that's annoying. That looks like one NFL player going one-on-one with another NFL player. But Bigby, Bush, and "Legs"....they're about as dynamic as a Monet painting.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Rockmolder
15 years ago

Thanks for the breakdown Rock.

Capers is played millions of dollars to stop drives just like that.

They had little time, a long way to go, a feeble OLine and one timeout.

I hope Capers is kicking himself all week and learns from it.

"British" wrote:



I doubt he is.

The only thing that the prevent defense is made for is not giving up the big TD. A bend, but don't break style of play.

And that's exactly what it did, from a coaching perspective.

The play call was allright on that last play, if you asume that Bigby was indeed supposed to play zone in the left side of the end-zone. That shouldn't have been a TD.

I think that he'll blame this on execution and just go the exact same way next time.
Rockmolder
15 years ago
It's not only those 3 guys, Wade. I couldn't find a shot of the other side of the end-zone, but conventional wisdom has it, that if 8 guys drop deep, and just 1 is on this side, 7 have to be on the other.

Aside from Bell, the other 7 guys where defending 4 receivers, of which 1 was a RB who isn't a great receiver and the other a TE.

Like you said, Bigby was coming up to this side, but really, he's way out of position in the first place.
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Most excellent!

I haven't had a chance to review the game yet, hell, I didn't get to watch much of it live either. Hectic 24 hours here.

I thought Bell was supposed to stay underneath and Bigby had the top. Looks like Bigby was out of position.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
It's not like this is Capers' first major screwup. He didn't learn his lesson from the first Vikings game either. He called the exact same kind of game the second time around.

I am unimpressed.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Martha Careful (1-Feb) : I have always admired the pluck of the man
Zero2Cool (1-Feb) : I remember thinking he was going to be something good.
Mucky Tundra (1-Feb) : The Dualing Banjo!
Zero2Cool (31-Jan) : Jets have named Chris Banjo as their special teams coordinator, Former Packers player
Zero2Cool (31-Jan) : Jaguars have hired Anthony Campanile as their DC. We lose coach
Zero2Cool (30-Jan) : QB coach Sean Mannion
Zero2Cool (30-Jan) : DL Coach DeMarcus Covington
dfosterf (30-Jan) : from ft Belvoir, Quantico and points south. Somber reminder of this tragedy at Reagan Nat Airport
dfosterf (30-Jan) : So eerily quiet here in Alexandria. I live in the flight path of commercial craft coming from the south and west, plus the military craft
dfosterf (30-Jan) : So eeri
Mucky Tundra (30-Jan) : Now that's a thought, maybe they're looking at the college ranks? Maybe not head coaches but DC/assistant DCs with league experience?
beast (30-Jan) : College Coaches wouldn't want that publicly, as it would hurt recruiting and they might not get the job.
beast (30-Jan) : I thought they were supposed to publicly announce them, at least the NFL ones. Hafley was from college, so I believe different rules.
Mucky Tundra (30-Jan) : Who knows who they're interviewing? I mean, nobody knew about Hafley and then out of nowhere he was hired
beast (30-Jan) : I wonder what's taking so long with hiring a DL coach, 2 of the 3 known to interview have already been hired elsewhere.
Zero2Cool (27-Jan) : Packers coach Matt LaFleur hires Luke Getsy as senior assistant, extends Rich Bisaccia's deal
Zero2Cool (27-Jan) : Chiefs again huh? I guess another Super Bowl I'll be finding something else to do.
Mucky Tundra (27-Jan) : Chiefs Eagles...again...sigh
dfosterf (27-Jan) : Happy Birthday Dave!
Mucky Tundra (27-Jan) : happy birthday dhazer
TheKanataThrilla (26-Jan) : Exactly buck...Washington came up with the ball. It is just a shitty coincidence one week later
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : I forgot, they corrected the call a week later. Lol btw HAPPY BIRTHDAY dhazer!
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : That brings up the question, why wasn't Nixon down by contact? I think that was the point Kanata was making.
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : Turnovers rule, win the turnover battle, win the game.
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : well, he was
TheKanataThrilla (26-Jan) : Eagles down by contact on the fumble....fuck you NFL
Mucky Tundra (26-Jan) : I think this games over
beast (26-Jan) : Eagles sure get a lot of fumbles on kickoffs
Mucky Tundra (26-Jan) : This game looks too big for Washington
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : that being said, The Ravens are the Browns
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : Browns, Dolphins have longest AFC Championship droughts
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : As of today, Cowboys have longest NFC Championship drought,
beast (26-Jan) : Someone pointed out, with Raiders hiring Carroll, the division games between Carroll and Jim Harbaugh are back on (who can whine more games)
beast (26-Jan) : I'm confused, Pete Carroll and Brian Schottenheimer? When Todd Monken, Joe Brady, Kellen Moore, Kliff Kingsbury and Zac Robinson are availab
Zero2Cool (25-Jan) : Any reason I'm catching a shot here about my intelligence?
Martha Careful (25-Jan) : thank you Mucky for sticking up for me
Martha Careful (25-Jan) : some of those people are smarter than you zero. However Pete Carroll is not
Mucky Tundra (24-Jan) : Rude!
beast (24-Jan) : Martha? 😋
Zero2Cool (24-Jan) : Raiders hired someone from the elderly home.
dfosterf (24-Jan) : I'm going with a combination of the two.
beast (24-Jan) : Either the Cowboys have no idea what they're doing, or they're targeting their former OC, currently the Eagles OC
Zero2Cool (23-Jan) : Fake news. Cowboys say no
Zero2Cool (23-Jan) : Mystery candidate in the Cowboys head coaching search believed to be Packers ST Coordinator Rich Bisaccia.
beast (23-Jan) : Also why do both NYC teams have absolutely horrible OL for over a decade?
beast (23-Jan) : I wonder why the Jets always hire defensive coaches to be head coach
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Still HC positions available out there. I wonder if Hafley pops up for one
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Trent Baalke is out as the Jaguars GM.
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Jeff Hafley would have been a better choice, fortunately they don't know that. Someone will figure that out next off season
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Aaron Glenn Planning To Take Jets HC Job
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 12 @ 3:30 PM
Eagles
Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

1-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

1-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

27-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / packerfanoutwest

27-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

25-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

25-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

25-Jan / Random Babble / Martha Careful

20-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

20-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

20-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

19-Jan / Random Babble / Martha Careful

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.