Dulak
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15 years ago
How can I make that bold of a statement ...?

I was writing a comment to zombies thread but realized the reply was too big for just a reply ...

as of today these are the Colts stats:
O
PTS 27.6 (5th)
YDS 384.4 (4th)
PASS YDS 296.4 (1st)
RUSH YDS 88.0 (30th)
D
PTS 16.7 (3rd)
YDS 337.4(17th)
PASS YDS 227.0(20th)
RUSH YDS 110.4 (17th)

the Packers stats:
O
PTS 26.5 (7th)
YDS 374.4 (7th)
PASS YDS 255.1 (9th)
RUSH YDS 119.3 (13th)

D
PTS 18.7(9th)
YDS 272.0 (2nd)
PASS YDS 187.0(3rd)
RUSH YDS 85.0(2nd)

You would think that with such a great D; GB would have a much better record ... our problem is all the penalties called on us. And the sacks we suffered from from games 1-10~

But back to the question ... colts D appears to middle of the road; while their O is Great.

btw Our O isnt that far behind ... could you imagine our team if they had alot less penalties called on them? and had a Oline ... IMO we would have a streak as good as the colts. Why not? ...

Lets see:
Colts - (least)10 sacks and 36 QB hits vs GB (most) 47 sacks and 81 QB hits ...

Wait ... penalty yards; ya lets look at those ... colts (least) at 476 and packers (most) at 935 yards ...

hmmm - I say we are the better football team. If only we had a Oline that could block and unbiased refs/and guys(more disciplined?) that commited less penalties.

btw - my money is on the packers to take it all.
And I will be taking that to the bank (hopefully 😉 come feb 7th
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago
I would agree that with better playcalling and Oline play we would could have won the 2 MN an Bengals game.

Tampa was just an abortion on the Football field by the Pack.
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Packers_Finland
15 years ago
You don't win with stats. Ask the Cowboys in week 12. 9-4 < 13-0. The Colts are better right now.
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Dulak
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15 years ago

You don't win with stats. Ask the Cowboys in week 12. 9-4 < 13-0. The Colts are better right now.

"Packers_Finland" wrote:



Sure you do - ill trade the colts stats of 1st in sacks allowed and penalty yardage and I bet we are 13-0.

ok like packtwins said - maybe we still lose the tampa game; but the other 3 I see us taking.

Especially the MN games where we had a roadmap to the quarterback and ref flags already pasted to our players (especially the first MN game).
Packers_Finland
15 years ago

You don't win with stats. Ask the Cowboys in week 12. 9-4 < 13-0. The Colts are better right now.

"Dulak" wrote:



Sure you do - ill trade the colts stats of 1st in sacks allowed and penalty yardage and I bet we are 13-0.

"Packers_Finland" wrote:



Ah, but you can't be #1 in everything. You have to sacrifice a lot to get an OL that good. You say we're an OL away from 13-0. Well, a lot of teams are missing that one thing that would make the 13-0 too, the thing is, you can't have it all at the same time, you have to balance it out. There's no way we could have a #1 OL, and still have the same kind of defense.
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mi_keys
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15 years ago
Yeah, if we had an oline as good as theirs and had the discipline to not commit so many penalties we'd have a better record and might even be undefeated. But we don't. You can't say were better because if we had one more piece we'd have the same record. We don't have that piece and by virtue of that are a worse team than the colts. Now I'm thrilled with where we are and if we keep it up well be the wild card that teams want to avoid. But we still have a number of things to improve on before we can be put at the same level as teams like the colts.
Born and bred a cheesehead
zombieslayer
15 years ago
Dulak - Colts have the #1 D (tied) in the NFL. Yards don't mean a damn thing. The only thing that matters is points.

I'll tell you what. We'll play football. You can have 500 yards and 30 points. I get 300 yards and 40 points. Who wins?

In '96, we were #1 in Points For and #1 in Points Against. I could care less about how many yards we made.

The thing about the Colts - they score lots of points and don't allow s***. That's why they're 13-0. The yards is deceptive because they're often garbage yards allowed when they're up by lots of points with little time left on the clock. Meaningless. It's as meaningless as when Lynn Dickey threw for 400+ yards but we only scored 14 points and tied the game.
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Greg C.
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15 years ago
I was less impressed with the Pack's #1 defensive ranking when I found out that penalty yards are not figured into it. This is pure laziness on the part of the stat guys. Yards given up by penalty are every bit as important as yards given up by the run or the pass--sometimes even more so, because many penalties contain automatic first downs.

Also, penalties reflect a deficiency in skill and/or discipline, just like any other bad plays. Penalties are often committed when players are out of position or are having to compensate for poor skills or poor technique. You just can't separate penalties from everything else, because it's all interrelated--as reflected in the win-loss columns.
blank
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
There's an argument to be made for yards, points and what not. Points don't mean shit, if you don't score more than what you gave up, that's the only time points matter. You could give up 10 a game and still lose every game by giving up only two touchdowns.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago

There's an argument to be made for yards, points and what not. Points don't mean shit, if you don't score more than what you gave up, that's the only time points matter. You could give up 10 a game and still lose every game by giving up only two touchdowns.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Well, you just figured out the secret to a good TEAM - score more points than you allow.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago

There's an argument to be made for yards, points and what not. Points don't mean shit, if you don't score more than what you gave up, that's the only time points matter. You could give up 10 a game and still lose every game by giving up only two touchdowns.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Well, you just figured out the secret to a good TEAM - score more points than you allow.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



My golly gosh, you're right!

I'm putting in my two week notice and heading off to NFL Head Coaching school!

lol
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zombieslayer
15 years ago
The thing is, humans overanalyze everything. Some things really are simple.

Like I'm not being sarcastic saying the secret to a good team is scoring more points than it allows. It really is that simple.

Let's take the 2 13-0 teams:
The Saints score an average 35.8 points a game which is enough to win every game they've played. They got the #1 O in the NFL. They got an average D, but they win games by over two touchdowns on average.

The Colts have the #1 D in the NFL, only allowing 16.7 points per game while still amassing 27.6 points per game. So they average winning by almost 11 points a game.

The rest is mental masturbation. You can look at individual stats, team stats, sacks, turnovers, penalty yards, and all that other garbage. Sure, they're important, but at the end of the game, the only two things that matter are points for and points against.
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dhazer
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15 years ago
i see alot of people saying how great the Colts line is but i think most of that is on The guy i really hate Manning. He is for the most part their offensive cord, and he doesn't hold onto the ball very long.

If they are such a great o-line why is their running game sucking?
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reed
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
I would think that when you are hitting nearly 36 a game, lots of teams are racking up a lot of garbage points, or you're trying to out score the other team because your defense can't stop them.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago

i see alot of people saying how great the Colts line is but i think most of that is on The guy i really hate Manning. He is for the most part their offensive cord, and he doesn't hold onto the ball very long.

If they are such a great o-line why is their running game sucking?

"dhazer" wrote:

They have 13 rushing TD's, 9 of which are from their starting RB.
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IronMan
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15 years ago

I was less impressed with the Pack's #1 defensive ranking when I found out that penalty yards are not figured into it. This is pure laziness on the part of the stat guys. Yards given up by penalty are every bit as important as yards given up by the run or the pass--sometimes even more so, because many penalties contain automatic first downs.

Also, penalties reflect a deficiency in skill and/or discipline, just like any other bad plays. Penalties are often committed when players are out of position or are having to compensate for poor skills or poor technique. You just can't separate penalties from everything else, because it's all interrelated--as reflected in the win-loss columns.

"Greg C." wrote:

+1
earthquake
15 years ago
The colts have won more games than the packers, which makes them the better team. It is as simple as that.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago

I would think that when you are hitting nearly 36 a game, lots of teams are racking up a lot of garbage points, or you're trying to out score the other team because your defense can't stop them.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



OK, I'm replying out of curiosity, not to prove anyone right or wrong here.

5 times this season, opposing teams have scored 27 or more against the Saints and the Saints still won.

Lions 27 - no 4th Q points.
Giants 27 - 10 4th Q points including a very late TD.
Dolphins 34 - no 4th Q points
Falcons 27 - 2 FGs in the 4th Q
Redskins 30 - Saints catch up late in the game and send it into OT, then win the game winning FG in OT. This one, Saints were playing catch up.

The latest game, the Saints had a solid lead and almost blew it right at the close of the 3rd Q and beginning of the 4th Q as the Falcons scored 2 quick TDs and tied up the game.

The Saints are a super O team, like the '07 Pats. They put up lots of points and just continually score. So hard to say if some of the many points they allow are "garbage points."
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Dulak
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15 years ago
Great comments guys!

I still enjoyed analyzing the stats - and like Greg pointed out ... if we took our D and the colts lack of penalties wed have alot less points scored on us (and probably more points that we score as a team).

The sacks ratio is another interesting thing to note when we are last and they are first.
zombieslayer
15 years ago
So that said, Dulak and Greg, what can be done about it? The fault goes to our Coaching staff for allowing and tolerating so many penalties? Have these excessive penalty yards cost us games?

That's what it comes down to - points. Penalties leading to points = a big problem. If we took out enough penalties to make us a "normal penalized" team, would we be in the top 3 for Points Allowed?
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