IronMan
15 years ago

Right now what we have is a line that gives our QB as much time vs a 4 man rush as other teams get against a blitz. It looks like Rodgers is holding the ball too long but he needs more time because the receivers are outnumbered.

Just about every time that Rodgers escapes the rush and buys more time he completes a pass to an open guy. That's because that is how long it takes for the receivers to get through all of that extra coverage.

"Stevetarded" wrote:


+1
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago

So I'm an ex-RB and will admit right off that I'm not a passing game guru.

But I keep hearing "run the short slants" as if they're a given, and I;m wondering if it's that simple. When they're (the Vikes) getting strong pressure with a 4-man rush, the aren't there 7 guys out in coverage - and might several of them be hanging around where you'd want to hit those quick slants? As in they're not a given and they've not been there for Rodgers when he hits that 3rd step? I'm asking, so let's not get snippy.

What I seem to see a number of times: Rodgers gets to his quick drop, looks and something doesn't seem to be there, tries to go to his next reads and then is caught up in the rush - we all know how the rest of the story goes.

So what I'm asking is: If you've got a situation where the opposing D is able to rush 4 guys and keep everyone else out in coverage, could those defenses not be taking those quick slants away?

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



Only having to rush 4 makes passing more difficult because of more coverage. That is true, but a defense is not able to sit on a slant and stop it. Slants are built with multiple windows for the pass. 1st is quick 3-4 yards, second is about 7. The other thing is if we have 3 WR on the field. Which is going to be running the slant, which is going to run a curl, which is going deep. If a defense was just sitting on a route. they are burnt.

We are not running the patterns even.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
warhawk
15 years ago

So I'm an ex-RB and will admit right off that I'm not a passing game guru.

But I keep hearing "run the short slants" as if they're a given, and I;m wondering if it's that simple. When they're (the Vikes) getting strong pressure with a 4-man rush, the aren't there 7 guys out in coverage - and might several of them be hanging around where you'd want to hit those quick slants? As in they're not a given and they've not been there for Rodgers when he hits that 3rd step? I'm asking, so let's not get snippy.

What I seem to see a number of times: Rodgers gets to his quick drop, looks and something doesn't seem to be there, tries to go to his next reads and then is caught up in the rush - we all know how the rest of the story goes.

So what I'm asking is: If you've got a situation where the opposing D is able to rush 4 guys and keep everyone else out in coverage, could those defenses not be taking those quick slants away?

I've decided to hold my tongue on the whole "Rodgers holds the ball too long!" deal - put simply, I don't agree, and moreover that's a critique that depends on whether it works or not. Roethlesberger gets praised all the time for the same thing, but the words change to something like "keeps working to extend the play". I'd rather my QB keep giving that effort, even if it leads to a couple more sacks per year.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



That's exactly what was happening. When the defense rushes four it is absolutely necessary to be able to get the protection until the receivers find the seams.

Almost every time Rodgers was given the least amount of time there were guys open but the Vikings plan was to pressure Rodgers and take the short pass away. With that scheme the defense has three LB'rs and two CB's no more than five yards off the line. With four rushers the Oline has to provide enough time to allow the WR's to slip into the secondary and find openings.

The biggest factor in this game was the fact we often sent more than four but created less pressure than the four rushers the Vikes sent most of the afternoon. To say "well, Chilly ran this", yeah he did. When we send more than four there are holes out there five yards beyond the LOS for Farve to find that WERE NOT there for Rodgers because of the five defenders standing in those short zones.

There's much more going on out there than suggesting a shorter passing game is the fix and why can't McCarthy see it. This wasn't about Childress being this awesome tactician that outsmarted our guy. The guys on the field outperformed our guys. In FACT, had McCarthy tried forcing the short game against that scheme THAT'S when the other guy is smarter than your guy.

With the Cover 2 there's all kinds of gaping holes 10 and more yds downfield that two guys can't cover but when the QB doesn't have time to wait and get it down there it can't be exploited.
"The train is leaving the station."
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Why not do more bootlegs/rollouts?
UserPostedImage
longtimefan
15 years ago
I been calling for those since the 1st viking game
Pack93z
15 years ago

Why not do more bootlegs/rollouts?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Bootlegs and rollouts put more pressure to one end of the line or the other, so which end is solid enough to provide that?

You can't roll Allen's way IMO, so that leaves Barbre on the hook, IMO, that is the weakest link on the field yet.. seven games in.

I will say it again.. we have a couple of problems on this team.. two are fatal flaws.

1. Pass Protection.. we wing it a great percent of the time.. it is killing us.

2. Penalties.. They absolute kill momentum and field position.

3. Lack of a running game and the desire to stay with the calls.. thus putting more pressure on the pass protection.

4. Special Teams.. we focused on it, we let go of a couple players that might have helped the core units to boost special teams. We are still struggling with it, and it is killing field position.

5. Lack of defensive pressure getting home.. our backers are just not all the effective blitzing yet.

That is my top five issues in ranks of importance.. we can list a ton more things that need work.. but those are the top five right this moment.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago

So I'm an ex-RB and will admit right off that I'm not a passing game guru.

But I keep hearing "run the short slants" as if they're a given, and I;m wondering if it's that simple. When they're (the Vikes) getting strong pressure with a 4-man rush, the aren't there 7 guys out in coverage - and might several of them be hanging around where you'd want to hit those quick slants? As in they're not a given and they've not been there for Rodgers when he hits that 3rd step? I'm asking, so let's not get snippy.

What I seem to see a number of times: Rodgers gets to his quick drop, looks and something doesn't seem to be there, tries to go to his next reads and then is caught up in the rush - we all know how the rest of the story goes.

So what I'm asking is: If you've got a situation where the opposing D is able to rush 4 guys and keep everyone else out in coverage, could those defenses not be taking those quick slants away?

I've decided to hold my tongue on the whole "Rodgers holds the ball too long!" deal - put simply, I don't agree, and moreover that's a critique that depends on whether it works or not. Roethlesberger gets praised all the time for the same thing, but the words change to something like "keeps working to extend the play". I'd rather my QB keep giving that effort, even if it leads to a couple more sacks per year.

"warhawk" wrote:



That's exactly what was happening. When the defense rushes four it is absolutely necessary to be able to get the protection until the receivers find the seams.

Almost every time Rodgers was given the least amount of time there were guys open but the Vikings plan was to pressure Rodgers and take the short pass away. With that scheme the defense has three LB'rs and two CB's no more than five yards off the line. With four rushers the Oline has to provide enough time to allow the WR's to slip into the secondary and find openings.

The biggest factor in this game was the fact we often sent more than four but created less pressure than the four rushers the Vikes sent most of the afternoon. To say "well, Chilly ran this", yeah he did. When we send more than four there are holes out there five yards beyond the LOS for Farve to find that WERE NOT there for Rodgers because of the five defenders standing in those short zones.

There's much more going on out there than suggesting a shorter passing game is the fix and why can't McCarthy see it. This wasn't about Childress being this awesome tactician that outsmarted our guy. The guys on the field outperformed our guys. In FACT, had McCarthy tried forcing the short game against that scheme THAT'S when the other guy is smarter than your guy.

With the Cover 2 there's all kinds of gaping holes 10 and more yds downfield that two guys can't cover but when the QB doesn't have time to wait and get it down there it can't be exploited.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



You sort of said the problem without actually saying it.

McCarthy is letting the defense dictate his offense, when his offense should be dictating to the defense.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
warhawk
15 years ago

So I'm an ex-RB and will admit right off that I'm not a passing game guru.

But I keep hearing "run the short slants" as if they're a given, and I;m wondering if it's that simple. When they're (the Vikes) getting strong pressure with a 4-man rush, the aren't there 7 guys out in coverage - and might several of them be hanging around where you'd want to hit those quick slants? As in they're not a given and they've not been there for Rodgers when he hits that 3rd step? I'm asking, so let's not get snippy.

What I seem to see a number of times: Rodgers gets to his quick drop, looks and something doesn't seem to be there, tries to go to his next reads and then is caught up in the rush - we all know how the rest of the story goes.

So what I'm asking is: If you've got a situation where the opposing D is able to rush 4 guys and keep everyone else out in coverage, could those defenses not be taking those quick slants away?

I've decided to hold my tongue on the whole "Rodgers holds the ball too long!" deal - put simply, I don't agree, and moreover that's a critique that depends on whether it works or not. Roethlesberger gets praised all the time for the same thing, but the words change to something like "keeps working to extend the play". I'd rather my QB keep giving that effort, even if it leads to a couple more sacks per year.

"PackFanWithTwins" wrote:



That's exactly what was happening. When the defense rushes four it is absolutely necessary to be able to get the protection until the receivers find the seams.

Almost every time Rodgers was given the least amount of time there were guys open but the Vikings plan was to pressure Rodgers and take the short pass away. With that scheme the defense has three LB'rs and two CB's no more than five yards off the line. With four rushers the Oline has to provide enough time to allow the WR's to slip into the secondary and find openings.

The biggest factor in this game was the fact we often sent more than four but created less pressure than the four rushers the Vikes sent most of the afternoon. To say "well, Chilly ran this", yeah he did. When we send more than four there are holes out there five yards beyond the LOS for Farve to find that WERE NOT there for Rodgers because of the five defenders standing in those short zones.

There's much more going on out there than suggesting a shorter passing game is the fix and why can't McCarthy see it. This wasn't about Childress being this awesome tactician that outsmarted our guy. The guys on the field outperformed our guys. In FACT, had McCarthy tried forcing the short game against that scheme THAT'S when the other guy is smarter than your guy.

With the Cover 2 there's all kinds of gaping holes 10 and more yds downfield that two guys can't cover but when the QB doesn't have time to wait and get it down there it can't be exploited.

"warhawk" wrote:



You sort of said the problem without actually saying it.

McCarthy is letting the defense dictate his offense, when his offense should be dictating to the defense.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



McCarthy is calling the offense based on what defense is in front of him and he is calling it right. You take what the defense gives you. The problem is without protection the execution is not there. Specifically the 0line.

When the 0line did a little better in the second half McCarthy was dictating all over the place. It's pretty simple. Five guys ought to be able to hold four rushers off long enough to get your WR's the ball.
"The train is leaving the station."
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago

McCarthy is calling the offense based on what defense is in front of him and he is calling it right. You take what the defense gives you. The problem is without protection the execution is not there. Specifically the 0line.

When the 0line did a little better in the second half McCarthy was dictating all over the place. It's pretty simple. Five guys ought to be able to hold four rushers off long enough to get your WR's the ball.

"warhawk" wrote:



IMO that is the wrong way to do things. We need to run our offense, and let the defense try to stop us. With MN pass rush, trying to beat the cover 2 deep played right into their hands.

We needed to force the short stuff, the slants, curls, drags what ever. 1, 3 step drops.

What we did in the game, is Let their defense dictate to our offense, and their offense dictate to our defense. That is how games are lost not won, and we did it twice, and lost twice.

We need to be aggressive. With Brett, we threw slants against cover 2, we dared the defense to stop us. We have lost that and need it back.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago



I really hate saying this. Seriously. This makes me sick to the stomach saying this. But I have to say it.

Childress' playcalling was better than Mike McCarthy's.

Yikes. The whole thought makes me sick.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



And even worse...Childress' playcalling itself wasn't that great. How many running plays did he call up the middle over Herrera/Loadholt -- even though Pickett and Kampman kept stuffing it over and over again for a yard gain, and even though Peterson did have several plays that worked on the Hutchinson side. I kept saying to myself (and occasionally in the chat), Brad keep calling run right, it's keeping us in the game.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (24m) : Daniel Jones joins Vikings
Zero2Cool (3h) : Tomorrow high 32° and low 19°
beast (9h) : Thanks Mucky!
Mucky Tundra (12h) : beast, forecast is looking like 27-28 degrees at kickoff, slight chance of snow flurries
Zero2Cool (15h) : Oh? It wasn't on the injury report. That sucks, but it's what is best.
packerfanoutwest (16h) : Doubs is out due to concussion
beast (18h) : What does the weather look like?
Martha Careful (23h) : You can wear long-johns mittens and a hat. We want Hill and their other skill guys FROZEN
Zero2Cool (26-Nov) : I'm not sure I hope for that. I'll be at the game.
Martha Careful (25-Nov) : I hope it is colder than a well-diggers ass on Thanksgiving night.
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : doubt he wants to face the speedsters
beast (25-Nov) : Dolphins offense can be explosive... I wonder if we'll have Alexander back
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : No Doubs could be issue Thursday
Mucky Tundra (25-Nov) : Bears. Santos. Blocked FG
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Bears. Vikings. OT
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Thems the breaks I guess
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Packers inactives vs 49ers: • CB Jaire Alexander • S Kitan Oladapo • LB Edgerrin Cooper • OL Jacob Monk
TheKanataThrilla (24-Nov) : Aaron Jones with a costly red zone fumble
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : When we trade Malik for a 1st rounder, we'll need a new QB2.
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
beast (23-Nov) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

16h / Featured Content / Martha Careful

17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

19h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

21h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / GameDay Threads / Zero2Cool

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.