PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago
As those highlights show it. Grant was good at turning up and going. But except the 1 where he cut 15 20 yards down field. When Grant turns and makes his burst, he has the ability of about 10-15 degree cuts. If it takes more than that, he ain't making the cut.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
RedSoxExcel
15 years ago
QB makes a difference too. This is not a slight against Rodgers before all the Rodgers-obsessed lose it and automatically assume a Favre compliment means someone is dissing Rodgers.

But I think its clear that Favre has made average or slightly above average RBs look pretty good in his career. The ability to read the defense and audible out of clear run stuffs helps. Plus in 2007, Favre had one his best statistical regular seasons ever which always helps the RB.

With time and experience Rodgers will able to read the defenses like Favre can now. But I think vetern QB v. rookie/2nd year QB makes a difference. Or maybe its all a concidence, who knows.

Oh yeah, and his "pay day" year makes a difference too, he does not look as hungry.
blank
nerdmann
15 years ago

In the second half of 2007 Grant was the most prolific running back.

Why is the running game of 2 years ago now so bad?

In 2008 we put it down to Grants injury and contract issue meaning he missed part of the off season.

But here we are in 2009, with a similar OLine and same back and the run game isnt working?

Why?

"British" wrote:




In that season, we went in with NO RUNNING BACKS.
Vernand Morency, iirc, was supposed to be the "starter," but hurt his knee on the first play of TC.
Wynn first got a shot until he strained his labia. Then they went with Bjack, who was overwhelmed as a rookie. I think Noah Herron ended up on IR. By this time, Grant had begun to learn the playbook. He had been picked up at the time of the final cutdowns.
So it was really only from week 10 on that Grant was even getting any action. For most of that season, we had NADA at RB.
Kind of like last year on Dline and this year on Oline. Except that Grant came out of nowhere to save our asses. Sort of like Lang has done this year.
He did all right. Doesn't seem to have the same burst as he did that year. Maybe missing all that training camp, spending last year injured and getting his big payday has taken away his edge.
The thing about Grant is that he NEVER got alot of yards. It's just that occasionally he would break a long run that would increase his per carry average. He hasn't been breaking those, for whatever reason.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

Attitude might play into it as well. It's not uncommon for a player to slack once they get a big pay day.

See: Alexander, Shaun.

"bigfog" wrote:


Ehh, I don't know if I agree with the reference. After getting his big contract, Alexander had an injury season in '06. Then the Seahawks lost Hutchinson to Minnesota and Alexander inched closer to 30 years old (the magical age that nearly all RBs begin to falter). Injury season again in '07 for Alexander and he's never been the same.

"evad04" wrote:



Alright, well how about a comparison to Larry Johnson then?

"bigfog" wrote:




LJ had over 400 carries that one year. No RB has had that many carries and gone on to continue to be successful. It's like a pitcher throwing out his arm.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

In order for our run game to succeed Ryan Grant has to run the ball at least 20 times. Why? Because with our run blocking it takes that many tries to open up some holes for Grant. And when they do Grant takes advantage of it. Only knock i have on Grant is he runs with his head down too much.

"cheeseheads123" wrote:




My knock on Grant is that he doesn't catch the ball consistently out of the backfield. If he was, we could use screens and traps and whatnot AS running plays, which is what we would need to do against a Dline like the Vikes. This would get him and the running game in general into more of a rhythmn, like getting him more carries.
It was also slow down the passing game. This could be why they signed Green.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

In order for our run game to succeed Ryan Grant has to run the ball at least 20 times. Why? Because with our run blocking it takes that many tries to open up some holes for Grant. And when they do Grant takes advantage of it. Only knock i have on Grant is he runs with his head down too much.

"evad04" wrote:


I agree. Although I don't know if it is "because" of our run blocking. A lot of teams have to get the volume of carries up to establish the run game. We're no different. Although, again, it makes no sense to run a bunch of times against Minnesota -- and if our lack of running production is in question here, we absolutely have to take into account the fact that we've played a shutdown run defense twice this short season.

"cheeseheads123" wrote:




Hence the importance of running screens. But we can't do that with Grant, because he will drop the ball. Like on that two point conversion yesterday.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

Go to the download section and download some of the videos from the 07 season and watch the holes Ryan Grant had. Its a night and day difference compared to this season.

"British" wrote:



This I can see. The real question is why.

Why could the same guys then (Colledge, Wells, Spitz, Clifton) do it then but not this year.

Maybe it is down to the play of the OTs but that seems a huge performance swing on the play of just 2 players. And Barbre is supposed to be ok in run blocking.

"cheeseheads123" wrote:




And Lang is a better run blocker than Clifton ever was.
The thing is, since Mike McCarthy instituted the zBS, (I spell it that way to emphasis the "BS") the Oline has always taken until about week TEN to gel.
This was previously based on the fact that Mike McCarthy was playing "musical chairs" with the Oline. However, perhaps it is due to the fact that you can't practice zBS in training camp, because you don't want to cut your own defensive players.
It may also have to do with the fact that the zBS is F'n stupid, and they tend to get away from it more later in the season when they are playing in weather. And when it consistently proves to be stupid and ineffective.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

Wow, I just went back to watch some of his runs in '07. Gaping lanes. Barely got touched on a lot of his long runs. Ok, I blame the o-line more than anything now. Clifton had a few great run blocks on some of his long runs. Too bad Cliffy isn't playing like that anymore.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:


Gotta link? 🙂 I wanna see the good Grant in action in an attempt to make sense of it all. Here's what I remember: Grant getting four or five yards deep into the defense, making a defender miss, then making one or two big cutbacks and finding space.

We saw that against Cleveland last week (I know, I know -- Cleveland stinks). Not surprisingly, that's one of the better run-blocking games we've had in ages.

"evad04" wrote:



I hate to say it, but the Cleveland game sounds like (I wasn't able to watch it) a case of our not-very-good o-line sacking up big time and beating a depleted and sick Browns d-line. In other words, an anomaly and mostly proof that Grant can, like any NFL-level back, produce when he's got big holes to run through.

So you either get a line that can create those holes*, or you get the kind of RB who can make his own room - the former is a lot easier (or should be) than the latter.



* and no, '07 wasn't the same line as last year or now - 2 years is a long time for an already-old OT, and Cliffy and Tausch were both a good deal better back then.

"wils0646" wrote:




I don't think it's necessarily so much the Browns being bad on the Dline as the Vikes being unusually good there. By far.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

As those highlights show it. Grant was good at turning up and going. But except the 1 where he cut 15 20 yards down field. When Grant turns and makes his burst, he has the ability of about 10-15 degree cuts. If it takes more than that, he ain't making the cut.

"PackFanWithTwins" wrote:




Yeah, I wonder if he even SEES those lanes. Bjack cuts way better than Grant.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
15 years ago

In order for our run game to succeed Ryan Grant has to run the ball at least 20 times. Why? Because with our run blocking it takes that many tries to open up some holes for Grant. And when they do Grant takes advantage of it. Only knock i have on Grant is he runs with his head down too much.

"nerdmann" wrote:


I agree. Although I don't know if it is "because" of our run blocking. A lot of teams have to get the volume of carries up to establish the run game. We're no different. Although, again, it makes no sense to run a bunch of times against Minnesota -- and if our lack of running production is in question here, we absolutely have to take into account the fact that we've played a shutdown run defense twice this short season.

"evad04" wrote:




Hence the importance of running screens. But we can't do that with Grant, because he will drop the ball. Like on that two point conversion yesterday.

"cheeseheads123" wrote:

That ball was deflected by one of the Williams. Other than that Grant had a few nice catches.
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