Zero2Cool
16 years ago

No I didn't mean that to be assumed. I just expected to give up many more sacks the past few years after losing the interior of our line, while we transitioned. I think our pass protection has been solid, for the most part. Nobody was complaining after week 1. And we've had Wells out and Spitz moved over.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:




I'm not sure who is complaining now. We did a fairly decent job against the Cowboys, running the ball anyhow. We just (my opinion) stopped running it too soon.

Per the passing game. Rodgers was running around a lot, but it wasn't solely because the OL was letting them through. He held onto the ball way too long several times, I thought.

As I have said before. I prefer a power OL over a finesse OL. Just a personal preference.
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zerowley
16 years ago
Sorry if I sounded like I was calling people out; I wasn't trying to. The zone blocking scheme is just heavily misunderstood (again, I blame commentators who try to sound like they know what they're talking about when they don't) and I think that article does a great job pointing out how it differs from typical blocking schemes, as well as pointing out some pros and cons to using it.

About the pass blocking scheme, I was pointing out that the ZBS is definitely utilized in pass protection; it's not just for the running game.
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Rios39
16 years ago

No I didn't mean that to be assumed. I just expected to give up many more sacks the past few years after losing the interior of our line, while we transitioned. I think our pass protection has been solid, for the most part. Nobody was complaining after week 1. And we've had Wells out and Spitz moved over.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:




I'm not sure who is complaining now. We did a fairly decent job against the Cowboys, running the ball anyhow. We just (my opinion) stopped running it too soon.

Per the passing game. Rodgers was running around a lot, but it wasn't solely because the OL was letting them through. He held onto the ball way too long several times, I thought.

As I have said before. I prefer a power OL over a finesse OL. Just a personal preference.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



The whole "Holding the ball too long thing" Is kind of iffy IMO. I can see if he was not throwing the ball to open receivers. But earlier in the game he was hitting quick slants and throws down field. But if they aren't open he can't just throw it anyways lol The line was horrendous after the 1st quarter.
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Pack93z
16 years ago
Here is a piece I posted a long time ago on another board.


For those looking for a definition to the scheme... here you go.. and it will maybe help dispell the illusion that any running back can be successful in the scheme. To me the running back needs to have great vision, decisive decision making, instincts and a decent burst to utilize the scheme.

But Warhawk's point above to me is correct.. you have to have the correct personal to run the scheme, the lineman have to be athletic and be able to make reads at the line. Additionally they have to be able to get out of their stance quickly.

The running game in football used to be pretty simple. The most complex things you would see for line play were some pulling guards to run sweeps or traps. But then several years ago you began to hear the word zone get thrown around more and more frequently (with the likes of Denver, Atlanta and others adopting it... yes us too) until it's about all you hear anymore.

In a general overview this is how a zone should be blocked, but I won't pretend to be an expert, but I will try to explain the basics to simplify things a bit. In the offense you and I grew up in, most of the time the running back had a specific point to try to run through, and the OL tried to create a seam right in that spot. Called man or drive blocking, requires more strength and doesn't require as much agility because everything happens in front of you.

With zone, you don't tell the running back exactly where to go. You direct his first couple of steps, and the point at which he gets the hand-off from the QB, but from there it's his responsibility to find a seam. Hence the "one" cut and go mantra that you hear about from the coaches.

There are a couple different kinds of zone, two of the most common being the inside zone and the zone stretch.

The "inside zone" is more of a downhill attack, and is more likely to produce the cutback lane. The back must be able to read the progress of the play and cut and go.

The "zone stretch" does just what it sounds like - runs more towards the edge, trying to get defensive flow horizontally so a vertical seam can be created, moreso of the drive or man scheme. Big play potential here.

Blocking the zone is where it really helps to have athletic linemen who can move horizontally with decent power and push. In fact, the OL must be able to move horizontally, all while keeping their shoulders square to the line of scrimmage and while engaging the defense. If they open up their shoulders at all, at can create a seam for the defense to get penetration and disrupt the play before it starts.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Greg C.
16 years ago

McCarthy emphasizes that he does not run a pure ZBS, he mixes it up, but it does have a big effect on what kind of players the Packers use. The emphasis is on getting linemen who are more nimble, which usually means sacrificing some strength. The downside is that linemen of this type tend to have problems in pass protection, as they get overpowered at times.

"Since69" wrote:



I sincerely hope this is McCarthy putting his best spin on the personnel moves that Thompson has made. It makes no sense otherwise. Either you zone block or you don't. Either your personnel are nimble enough to zone block or they're bulky enough to push people out of the way. We have to pick a side and stay with it. Offensive linemen don't have time to think. They have to react. What they do in any given situation must be second nature to them. It has to be practiced and repeated until it can be done without thought.

This half-assed "this week you'll be a road grader and next week you'll be throwing yourself at the other guys legs" crap has to stop. McCarthy has preached cohesiveness and consistency since his tenure began and this part-time zone blocking :xcensoredx: isn't going to allow that to happen - especially with young, inexperienced linemen.

"Greg C." wrote:



What McCarthy meant by mixing it up is that it depends on the play. Sometimes the linemen block specific players and sometimes they block in a zone. McCarthy also made the point that this is true of any offense. Your caricature of this ("this week you'll be a road grader and next week you'll be throwing yourself at the other guys' legs") is very misleading.

My main point was that I agree with Zero. I liked the power running scheme better. I think the ZBS is too complicated for its own good. I wonder if McCarthy would've gone with the ZBS if he'd known that Jeff Jagodzinski would get hired on at Boston College after only one year as our offensive coordinator.
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Zero2Cool
16 years ago

The whole "Holding the ball too long thing" Is kind of iffy IMO. I can see if he was not throwing the ball to open receivers. But earlier in the game he was hitting quick slants and throws down field. But if they aren't open he can't just throw it anyways lol The line was horrendous after the 1st quarter.

"Rios39" wrote:



I disagree. QB's are told they have a certain amount of time in the pocket to get rid of the ball. I can't recall the exact number, but I think its like 2.4 seconds or something like that. If they don't see an opening and can't scramble for yards, throw it away instead of taking the sack.

Rodgers held the ball too long and where it worked out great last week, this week it didn't. We can't expect our OL that is small to fend off guys bigger and stronger than them for 5 seconds a play because our WR are covered. He needs to ditch the ball or run for a few yards.

The draw play and some play action pass calls would have been good in the game. I believe anyhow.
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dannychau22
16 years ago
anybody know the status of scott wells??
would be nice to have Clifton-Colledge-Wells-Spitz-Tauscher again
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porky88
16 years ago
The ZBS always takes a while to get going considering you don't practice it much. You can't cut your own guys. Every year the running game takes a while to get going. Eventually it does. I wouldn't worry that much. I think eventually it can get going. GB did run the ball pretty well against Detroit and Minnesota. Certainly not terrible.

The problem is Dallas is a great football team. You had an outstanding front seven going up against an offensive line that has their starting center out, starting guard playing center, and a running-back with a bad hamstring.
longtimefan
16 years ago


Rodgers was sacked five times Sunday night.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



I refuse to judge this O-line while Tony Moll is in there.

"Since69" wrote:



+20
Zero2Cool
16 years ago

The ZBS always takes a while to get going considering you don't practice it much. You can't cut your own guys. Every year the running game takes a while to get going. Eventually it does. I wouldn't worry that much. I think eventually it can get going. GB did run the ball pretty well against Detroit and Minnesota. Certainly not terrible.

The problem is Dallas is a great football team. You had an outstanding front seven going up against an offensive line that has their starting center out, starting guard playing center, and a running-back with a bad hamstring.

"porky88" wrote:




Yep. Very true and good points.


I still prefer to have a power OL. I don't mean to knock one in favor of the other. I just prefer to out power people on the lines. I think it frustrates a team when they get out physicalled. <-- new word?

Not that getting cut doesn't piss off players, cuz ... it does and its funny listening to them whine about it. Vikings?
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Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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