IronMan
  • IronMan
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
15 years ago
Jersey Al from PackersLounge.com 
breaks it down. Well done Al.

Since this is a bye week, I decided to go slowly, dig deep and hopefully bring you some in-depth insight on a few things I have noticed. Therefore, I will be breaking my film study up into a series of articles over the next week.

Aaron Rodgers

As I sat down to re-watch the Packers - Vikings game, remote control in hand, I wondered about one thing; Is Aaron Rodgers as good a quarterback as I think he is? The answer, for the most part is YES. The part that still needs improvement may only come with time, but its definitely missing right now. Aaron Rodgers does not feel the pressure if its not right in front of him. Then, when the pressure is upon him, in that fateful moment of truth, Rodgers is not yet making the right decision. Yes, there are times when taking a sack is the best thing to do. But that wasnt often the case in the Vikings game.

I studied every one of his sacks, over and over again. On five of them, Rodgers had every opportunity to either throw the ball away or look for a safety valve. In each case, he kept looking down the field, hoping against hope and holding on to the ball too damn long. Its nothing more than bad decision-making in that critical moment.

The two best examples are these:


The Fumble:

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After moving the Packers down the field nicely on their first possession, the Packers have a first and ten on the Minnesota 24 yard line. Rodgers, takes a quick 3-step drop, looks downfield and doesnt like what he sees. Right in front of him is his safety valve. Ryan Grant has run about 5 yards past the line of scrimmage and is all alone - closest Viking player is 7 yards away and backpedaling in the opposite direction. Rodgers gets pressure from the right and all he has to do is just toss it to Grant for an easy and safe completion and probably a 7-10 yard gain.Instead, he freezes with the ball, and tries to navigate out of the pocket - which is pretty impossible to do on a 3-step drop when everything is closing in around you. He runs right into the path of Jared Allen, who gets the sack and strips the ball, causing the fumble.

The Safety

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There were roughly 7 minutes left in the game with the Packers looking at 3rd and 10 on their own 1yard line. Rodgers in the shotgun in the end zone with Grant to his left. Ball is snapped. Grant helps T.J. Lang with Allen. Rodgers has a nice pocket to step up into, which he does. When Allen gets pushed deep, he stops on a dime and reverses his direction, leaving both Grant and Lang looking at the back of his jersey. In the meantime, Donald Lee, who had lined up in the backfield, ran a quick turn turn-around. He is available for a quick dump off. Sure, it wouldnt have been a first down, but it would have been better than a safety. Instead, Rodgers is looking deep. He shifts his weight back, winds up and starts to let one fly. For some reason, he stops his throw. A split-second later, Allen is on top of him and the Vikings have a safety. Why would Rodgers change his mind there at the very last second? Heave it as far as you can. Not much to lose. An interception down the field would be like a punt. But he doesnt feel Allen behind him, doesnt see Lee in front of him, hopes hell have time for a better option, and gets sacked.

Brett Favre

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In both of those situations, Rodgers had an easy dump-off to avoid the sack, but chose to keep looking down field. Contrast those with a play that Brett Favre made to neutralize the Packers blitz. On a second and eleven, with about eight minutes left in the second quarter, the Packers run their all-too familiar crossover blitz with the two inside backers (Barnett and Chillar). Barnett finds a rare open lane and is coming through untouched. As soon as Favre saw what was happening, he didnt hesitate, he immediately turned and threw to his safety valve, Adrian Peterson out in the flat. Peterson was stopped for no gain on the play, but there was no sack, no fumble, no interception.



This appears to be about the only thing Aaron Rodgers is lacking right now. Hes already led several drives down the field late in games this season, so that monkey is off his back. He looks to have all the tools, the confidence and the leadership qualities you will find in a premier quarterback. He just has to get over this final hump. If he does, I think he can be a top-5 QB in this league.

Youll notice I havent discussed the offensive line. For those of you yelling at your screens that its the lines fault, I say - somewhat. But thats a separate article (hopefully in a few days). However, no matter how good a teams offensive line is, a top-flight QB will have to face moments like these in a game. Rodgers has to learn to handle it and make the right decision - period. Thats how you become a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady.



You can find more of Jersey Al Braccos articles on several sports websites: Jersey Al's Blog  , NFL Touchdown  and Bleacher Report 

You can also follow Jersey Al  on twitter.
15 years ago
It almost seemed like he became impatient with the dump offs, because he did throw a decent number of them in the early going. Then he hit some WRs for bigger gains, and almost got hungry for more of that.

Patience is what he needs a little more of, I guess.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Still frames don't really say a lot.

The Fumble - It sure looks like he's about to get slammed and he's not even in throwing motion at all. Once he brings the ball back to throw, he's hit by the End.

The Safety - When did that guy get open? Pre pump or did the pump free him? What happens after?

I'm not saying the article is not right, just saying the still frames are worthless in the debate. You need to see the entire play to accurately say anything.

I do agree with the point of the article, Rodgers holds the ball too long too often.
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IronMan
  • IronMan
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
15 years ago



I'm not saying the article is not right, just saying the still frames are worthless in the debate. You need to see the entire play to accurately say anything.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I don't think they are worthless at all. Every game we see quarterbacks, and coaches looking at pictures of previous plays, during the game while on the sidelines.
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago
OK, no offense to anybody, but Bullshit on this eval. Anytime I see a still pic used as evidence in a football game, I want to bitch slap somebody.

The Sack: What does he say, all Rodgers has to do is just toss the ball to Grant. Try using the video. Ball gets snapped, Rodgers drops, pressure breaks from the right in less than 2 seconds. At that point Grant is running out on his route with his back to Rodgers. At the time of this still. Grant is turning his route, and Rodgers is saying Oh shit, I have to get going and is in the process of trying to scramble away from the pressure.

The Safety: Sure Lee is there. But who is between them, Wells and one of the Williams, and again what this pic doesn't show is that a LBer is just out of frame in position to make a break if Rodgers trys to lob the ball over the two players in between. Another blown critique.

Now Favre: Sure Brett was able to throw to the flat. It was a blitz, that could be seen coming. Not a base rush that blows the Oline up in < 2 seconds.

Rodgers does hold the ball to long some times. The two plays given to try and show Rodgers problems, are not plays he is doing that on.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

I'm not saying the article is not right, just saying the still frames are worthless in the debate. You need to see the entire play to accurately say anything.

"IronMan" wrote:



I don't think they are worthless at all. Every game we see quarterbacks, and coaches looking at pictures of previous plays, during the game while on the sidelines.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



You mentioned a very key word, pictures. Not picture. as you know there's a vast difference in seeing what happen prior to and after said picture. That's exactly the point I'm getting at. We see one still frame while in your example they are seeing many still frames. I believe they are in 0.10 second intervals too.

It's a good article and thanks for sharing. I'll add the video's later tonight if I get time to.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago
Still frames do mean something. I disagree with you Zero & PackFan. There's a reason why coaches have printed up still frames and are standing there looking at them during the actual game. Those still frames can tell them what they should have seen and correct it.

Some folks will get mad at me for saying this but as of 10/09/09, Brett Favre is simply a better QB. I've watched both Packers and Vikings games and Favre although ridiculously safe takes what the D gives him. He only makes things happen when he has to.

Granted, that's not fair. Not fair at all. Favre is behind a better OL and Grant != AP. But still, he works with what he has. Let's not forget that Rodgers has better receivers. Yes, Driver and Jennings are better than what MN's got.

Rodgers will learn this though with time. He needs to dump off passes and throw them away, and as was mentioned, do that deep throw because it's equivalent to a punt. It's not like it's Woody and Collins back there where you have to worry about a TD every time they touch the ball.
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

Still frames do mean something. I disagree with you Zero & PackFan. There's a reason why coaches have printed up still frames and are standing there looking at them during the actual game. Those still frames can tell them what they should have seen and correct it.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



IronMan disagree's then says pictures, plural, meaning more than one.
You disagree then say frames, plural, meaning more than one.


What is so hard to understand? You both disagree and yet we have ONE frame posted and I'm saying that ONE frame is useless in an accurate evaluation. Which is supported by BOTH of your 'disagree' statements when you say PICTURES and FRAMES which means MORE THAN ONE!

I think you're both just trying to mess with me here because the point I'm making is extremely straight forward and I know both of you are understanding what I'm saying.
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warhawk
15 years ago

Still frames do mean something. I disagree with you Zero & PackFan. There's a reason why coaches have printed up still frames and are standing there looking at them during the actual game. Those still frames can tell them what they should have seen and correct it.

Some folks will get mad at me for saying this but as of 10/09/09, Brett Favre is simply a better QB. I've watched both Packers and Vikings games and Favre although ridiculously safe takes what the D gives him. He only makes things happen when he has to.

Granted, that's not fair. Not fair at all. Favre is behind a better OL and Grant != AP. But still, he works with what he has. Let's not forget that Rodgers has better receivers. Yes, Driver and Jennings are better than what MN's got.

Rodgers will learn this though with time. He needs to dump off passes and throw them away, and as was mentioned, do that deep throw because it's equivalent to a punt. It's not like it's Woody and Collins back there where you have to worry about a TD every time they touch the ball.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Favre takes what the defense gives him because he has two running backs and an offensive line covering his back. I wouldn't concede by any means that Favre is a better QB. What Rodgers has had to work through has been incredibly more difficult than Favre. There's no apples to apples here.

Rodgers gets the protection Favre got Monday night and we beat the stink out of the Vikings. Yes, Rodgers is going to have to throw it away more but at the end of the day is that going to win more games? Had Rodgers taken three or even four less sacks and just thrown the ball in the stands do we win that game? I haven't seen to many games won throwing the ball out of bounds every other time the QB goes back to pass.

It's the PRESSURE and how that interupts our offense from functioning the way it could that is the problem. Whether it's a sack or the QB has to run for his life or he has to throw it away is a winning play for the defense.

THere's WAY to much of that going on out there and if we are going to be a GOOD football team it has to stop. I don't care if Rodgers never gets sacked again this year. If he continues to see the pressure he has been under we are in trouble. Period.
"The train is leaving the station."
dhazer
15 years ago
Wow what a big circle has been turned here. I remember saying how the Vikings o-line was worse than ours and now they have a very good line? What about the rookie starting and losing their center?


Oh and this is a stat i hate but alot of people on here use it to make Rodgers great ( like i have been saying i think Rodgers is a good qb but still learning and i have cut him some slack) , but back to that stupid ass stat qb ranking well as it stands right now Rodgers is #5 with a 101.1 and guess who is #3 with a 104.6, yup the old gunslinger.

I will never understand that stat Rodgers averages 274 ypg and Favre averages 209 so i have no idea how to figure that out.



more interesting stats

Favre 8 tds 1 int
Rodgers 6 tds 1 int


All in all i say give Rodgers time to use the dump off plus remember the sophmore slump bs lol.

I still believe alot of holding onto the ball goes back to the preseason when he was hitting alot of the deep balls and now he thinks he can do it every game. And wtf has happened to Jennings, I guess he is off created stuff on the 8th day 😛
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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