Zero2Cool
15 years ago

I really hate to do this but i will 😛, back in '07 the Packers line wasn't that great and probably would have given up alot of sacks but look at the play calls. Lord Favre alot of times had the ball out of his hands in less than 3 secs on the quick slants and curls. For some reason this year we have the wrs running 20 yard routes and i think that is partially from the preseason when those things worked and so they think it will always work. Rodgers is still learning and he will learn to check out of plays and go back to the quick slants and curls i believe. I think Lord Favre called alot of audibles back then to save his ass. Rodgers will get comfy going against Mike McCarthy's play calling and will improve (hopefully)

"dhazer" wrote:



We get it, a guy who's played in 250 more games is better at short passes than a guy who's played in a couple dozen, WE GET IT! lol :)

The line in '07 was better than it is today, easily. No one can dispute that. Even with that said, I'm not trying to discredit the Favre factor, he played a large role in those plays. He's the slant god, no question. He was also extremely intelligent in sniffing out a blitz an the hot read. It's called experience and we lack it at the QB position.

All in all, the quote post is true and I don't disagree with the comment on the pre season bit either. Although if true, my gosh, we're in a world of hurt if our coaching staff thinks because it worked in pre season when no one is game planning to stop us, that hey it worked there, it'll work in the season. We have BIG PROBLEMS.
UserPostedImage
mi_keys
15 years ago

I really hate to do this but i will 😛, back in '07 the Packers line wasn't that great and probably would have given up alot of sacks but look at the play calls. Lord Favre alot of times had the ball out of his hands in less than 3 secs on the quick slants and curls. For some reason this year we have the wrs running 20 yard routes and i think that is partially from the preseason when those things worked and so they think it will always work. Rodgers is still learning and he will learn to check out of plays and go back to the quick slants and curls i believe. I think Lord Favre called alot of audibles back then to save his ass. Rodgers will get comfy going against Mike McCarthy's play calling and will improve (hopefully)

"dhazer" wrote:



This, I think, has a lot of truth to it. Favre was a 17 year veteran at the time and was in his 16th season starting. At the same time though, we were also able to go deep quite a few times that year. Some of that might have had to do with a more balanced attack or maybe even the quick slants and throws keeping the defense on its heels a bit. The line played better though. The line played better last year with Rodgers. Rodgers has a lot to learn and hopefully he'll continue to learn all the intricacies of the QB position but right now he barely even has time to run a slant.


To porky, no I didn't time when the pocket collapsed on those plays, which in some cases was even quicker. Actually, that first sack with the fumble I timed the collapse at 1.9 seconds and that was 1.9 seconds for BOTH defensive ends to break through.
Born and bred a cheesehead
warhawk
15 years ago
I have a trivia question for you guys and I have no idea what the answer is so if someone can find it there's a beer on me.

Has ANY QB EVER thrown for 385 yards in a game when he was sacked EIGHT times?
"The train is leaving the station."
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
On November 20, 2005, Jake Delhomme was sacked 8 times and passed for 235 yards.

On December 14, 2008, Eli Manning was sacked 8 times and passed for 191 yards.

On September 11, 2006, Aaron Brooks was sacked 7 times and passed for 68 yards.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

I have a trivia question for you guys and I have no idea what the answer is so if someone can find it there's a beer on me.

Has ANY QB EVER thrown for 385 yards in a game when he was sacked EIGHT times?

"warhawk" wrote:



I doubt it's ever happened. Now if you would have asked has a QB ever been sacked 8 eights and threw for 384 yards, I'd say I know one, Rodgers.

;)
UserPostedImage
Rockmolder
15 years ago

On December 14, 2008, Eli Manning was sacked 8 times and passed for 191 yards.



The man has had an amazing O-line for most of his career, especially recently, has a great running game to keep the defense honest and he still manages to get sacked 8 times.

Given, Dallas was really getting after him, but still.

I'm still no Eli fan. Although he has been impressive this year.
RedSoxExcel
15 years ago
I get it, the O-line sucks. But I my whole issue has to do more with Rodgers progression as an NFL player.

My problem is simply that he holds on to the ball too much just like he did in game #1 as opposed to game #20. The O-line is terrible, there is no debating that but IMO Rodgers is blame a lot more than 15%. I think a lot of sacks are 50/50. Even when Favre was giving them up left and right in the first 3 games, I said the same thing.

1) As a QB, its your job to read blitzes, if your giving up a lot of sacks where you have no time to react, then you probably failed to read the defence properly and get it out with a quick slant, etc. - That may have to do with coaching though and their instructions to him/latitude to call plays. That will come with time but you cannot expect the O-line/RB to pick up every single blitz, it doesn't happen.

2) You have to sometimes just plain get rid of the ball. For example, that safety. I do not understand how that is even remotely the O-line's fault. Your at the half yard line. You konw you have a couple of seconds MAX to get rid of it. That is on Rodgers. And I hate when he thinks hes faster than he is. Yes he's mobile but he is not Michael Vick. You think your going to outrun Jarden Allen out of the endzone, your not. Play within yourself. Even on last year's safety too, Jarden Allen just plain ran him down.

3) You have to take risks sometimes. I get it, he doesn't get a lot of INTs but I think sometimes you have to take risks. He seems to not want to pull the trigger if its close. But I think you can play like that if you have the Ravens defence of 2008 or whatever. Just like I said last year, our defence is not an elite defense, so take the risks.

Overall, I like Rodgers progression. But this part of his game gets me antsy. He's a statistical giant but a lot of times he gets these 70 yard, 1 minute drives down by two touchdowns. I hate when people just look at stats and scream "whatever look at his stats". Its not all about stats otherwise Warren Moon and Dan Marino would be the two greatest QBs in the history of the NFL. But their not, its about something else, winning. Either your a winner or your not.

Do I think the true "legends" just happen to have the best teams every year, i.e. Manning, Favre, Brady. No. For example, Jets. This was the Mangenius Jets, not the Rex Ryan Jets and they went from 4-12 to 9-7 (including 8-3 at one point) with Favre. And the Packers went from 13-3 to 6-10. Maybe its all just concidence that happens or that the Colts are good EVERY single year, who knows.

But IMO, the most important position in football is exactly that, the most important position. Tahts why I think Rodgers has a lot more control over sacks than just a passive bystander. The O-line sucks but at least show some kind of sign of progression is all I'm asking for. But this excuse that its all the O-line will only hurt his progression in the long run IMO.
blank
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
On December 30, 1992 rookie quarterback David Klingler was sacked 10 times, passed for 140 yards and (incredibly, in my opinion) no interceptions
UserPostedImage
Rockmolder
15 years ago
You know what the funny part is? They're not blitzing. They're bringing 4 people and Rodgers goes down in 1.5 seconds. Just look around some other threads. There have been some pretty accurate timings on how long it took Rodgers to get sacked. Allen got in there between 1 and 2.5 seconds on nearly all of his sacks.

We tried some max protection, but that resulted in coverage sacks. Our receivers are great, but even they can't find seams in their zone defense when it's 3 receivers against 7 guys in coverage.

You have a fair point on the safety, but if Allen gets behind you in 1 second and you try to wind up and throw it away, you're in much more trouble. There where 4 possibile scenarios in that one.

1. He throws it away and gets flagged with intentional grounding.
2. He throws it away and Jared Allen easily gets his hand on Rodgers arm. Either a safety or a TD.
3. He miracously gets it in the area of a receiver (in coverage), doesn't get picked and Allen misses his hand/arm.
4. He takes the safety.

I'm not saying that it was the best play to make and maybe he should've thrown it towards a RB after 1.2 seconds, but I really don't think you can blame him a whole lot on that safety.

I don't know how you can even come with that argument about the Colts, Favre and Rodgers.

The Colts defense hasn't been amazing apart from that year of their SB run, but they haven't been as bas as ours was last year either. Manning is a better QB at this point, no doubt about it, but do you truly believe that Favre would have us doing better at this point?
RedSoxExcel
15 years ago

You know what the funny part is? They're not blitzing. They're bringing 4 people and Rodgers goes down in 1.5 seconds. Just look around some other threads. There have been some pretty accurate timings on how long it took Rodgers to get sacked. Allen got in there between 1 and 2.5 seconds on nearly all of his sacks.

We tried some max protection, but that resulted in coverage sacks. Our receivers are great, but even they can't find seams in their zone defense when it's 3 receivers against 7 guys in coverage.

You have a fair point on the safety, but if Allen gets behind you in 1 second and you try to wind up and throw it away, you're in much more trouble. There where 4 possibile scenarios in that one.

1. He throws it away and gets flagged with intentional grounding.
2. He throws it away and Jared Allen easily gets his hand on Rodgers arm. Either a safety or a TD.
3. He miracously gets it in the area of a receiver (in coverage), doesn't get picked and Allen misses his hand/arm.
4. He takes the safety.

I'm not saying that it was the best play to make and maybe he should've thrown it towards a RB after 1.2 seconds, but I really don't think you can blame him a whole lot on that safety.

I don't know how you can even come with that argument about the Colts, Favre and Rodgers.

The Colts defense hasn't been amazing apart from that year of their SB run, but they haven't been as bas as ours was last year either. Manning is a better QB at this point, no doubt about it, but do you truly believe that Favre would have us doing better at this point?

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Nope not saying that all. Favre is 40 years old. I would hope and assume that a QB in their 20's that is the franchise gives us a better chance to win at this point. All I'm saying is that the QB is a very important position. And I don't think its a concidence that Brady, Manning and Favre win every year (one losing season, 13-7 since he left the Packers). Stats are not all that matters or else Warren Moon is the greatest of all time. I just am not that impressed with stats when you do not win, but thats just me. Because maybe hte reason you got 150 yards in the last 5 minutes is because the other team was in prevent because the game was pretty much out of hand based on your other 3 quarters of play.

On the safety, I don't agree with your assessment, I guess I saw the play different. He was in shotgun first, had no initial rush directly at him, then he moved forward, pump faked and then got sacked? There is NO way you have the luxury of a pump fake in the end zone like that.

I just watched again as I have it PVR'd. We actually double teamed Allen. Ryan Grant and the OL blocked him. I wish I knew how to take a picture of the still screen. But there is one point at 7:23 frame that Rodgers has no one near him. He steps up, then pump fakes, then Allen gets free and hits him. The funny thing is if he didn't pump fake and just ran right away, he probably could have just the first down. Or if he stayed where he was, no one was going to get near him, it wasn't until he moved up that Allen had any shot at him.

You can actually see at around the pump fake that he has #86 at the 3-4 yard line with his hands up in the air.

Of course all this is just Monday Morning QB in me. As he obviously cannot see all that. But I want someone else to watch the play and talk about what else the O-line could have done there. I just think something is wrong with the timer in his head. Your in the endzone, you have three-four seconds if you stay still, you have less than if your going to run around. The area to work with is 10 yards, its just logic that its harder for the O-line to help you if you rund around in that short of an area.
blank
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (now) : Corey Ballentine and Edgerrin Cooper still not practicing.
Zero2Cool (1m) : Basically, today is Friday for Packers.
Zero2Cool (1m) : Jaire Alexander & Romeo Doubs continue to practice.
Zero2Cool (1h) : Sharpe and Holmgren are Hall of Fame finalists.
beast (4h) : I completely agree with you... I'm shocked that he's listed as practicing of any kind without be cleared of the protocol
Zero2Cool (4h) : I thought once practicing, they were out of protocol. so it is news to me
beast (4h) : Even LaFleur is saying "I don’t know all the nuances of that. They just tell me when he’s cleared.”
beast (4h) : Interesting that a player can BOTH be limited practicing and also in the concussion protocols... even LaFleur is saying "I don’t know all th
Zero2Cool (4h) : And the reason I think it is BS, is Bill isn't going to pine for a job that's not available. He respects the whole coaching people thing
Zero2Cool (4h) : I think it's BS. Jets thought win now with Rodgers, not happening.
beast (4h) : The rumor could be BS... but supposedly Belichick wouldn't like the Cowboys because then he'd have Jerry Jones butting in all the time
beast (4h) : And Belichick wants an owner that will be hands off and let a head coach fully steer the boat, and supposedly Jaguars owner is hands off
beast (4h) : Jaguars job because it's the closest job that might be available near his house in Jupiter Florida. And Belichick wants an owner that....
Zero2Cool (5h) : No reason to want Jaguars job, or Rodgers.
Zero2Cool (5h) : Doubs still in protocol
Mucky Tundra (8h) : That's an...interesting rumor
beast (8h) : Rumor, Bill Belichick is eyeing both the Jaguars and Aaron Rodgers for 2025... who knows if he'll be able to get either
beast (11h) : Based on numbers, Broncos and Browns had a wild one
beast (11h) : Alexander and Doubs were back at practice
Mucky Tundra (22h) : hey where's the game day thread for the Lions?
Mucky Tundra (22h) : Should we though?
Zero2Cool (22h) : Edgerrin Cooper, Corey Ballentine and Elgton Jenkins miss Monday practice
Zero2Cool (2-Dec) : We should talk Fantasy Football.
Zero2Cool (2-Dec) : No.
beast (2-Dec) : Will Rodgers keep copying Brett and join the Vikings next?
packerfanoutwest (2-Dec) : Rodgers needs to retire tomorrow
Mucky Tundra (2-Dec) : And you're still winning easily because I started all the wrong guys
buckeyepackfan (1-Dec) : MVS another td catch for The Saints
buckeyepackfan (1-Dec) : Tucker killing me in our FFL 2 missed Fg's 1 missed pat. lol
Zero2Cool (1-Dec) : Kickin ain't easy.
beast (1-Dec) : Anders Carlson hasn't missed a FG since Packers released him, including 50+ yarders... but has missed a couple of extra points
Mucky Tundra (1-Dec) : Justin Tucker with a missed PAT, what's going on with him this year?
Mucky Tundra (1-Dec) : That and just missing some games that were toss ups based on the Vegas line
Mucky Tundra (1-Dec) : Regarding pfow and Pick'em, I think he leaned too hard on "Everyone is picking Team A so I'll pick Team B"
beast (1-Dec) : I think Packers 1st playoff game might be Packers @ Seahawks, which we'll have in the regular season in two weeks
beast (1-Dec) : Yeah, Cardinals got me all excited for nothing... they choked. As of right now, we might get a playoff preview in 2 weeks
beast (1-Dec) : Did packerfanoutwest self-sabotage his pick'em? Doing so well, then this week
beast (1-Dec) : Did packerfanoutwest self-sabotage his pick'em? Doing so well, then this week
Mucky Tundra (1-Dec) : Also, shame on Arizona! Could have done us a solid by beating Minnesota
Mucky Tundra (1-Dec) : Just bring it dork!1!!
Zero2Cool (1-Dec) : I will fight you!!
Mucky Tundra (1-Dec) : you mean you weren't already? :P
Zero2Cool (1-Dec) : Christmas Tree and lawn thingies are up. Time to turn into Grinch now!
Mucky Tundra (29-Nov) : Mahomes Magic baby! *cough*
TheKanataThrilla (29-Nov) : KC the luckiest team in the league
Zero2Cool (29-Nov) : Frigging host issues for site again
beast (29-Nov) : For the first time in their long history, the Bears fire their head coach mid-season. Which comes after three very close in-division losses.
Zero2Cool (29-Nov) : At the game now. Kampman and Cullen Jenkins are here.
buckeyepackfan (29-Nov) : Happy Thanksgiving Packer Fans! Gonna celebrate with some grilled Dolphin later!
buckeyepackfan (29-Nov) : Inactive 23 CB Jaire Alexander 56 LB Edgerrin Cooper 62 OL Jacob Monk 87 WR Romeo Doubs
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
45m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

50m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

4h / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

19h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

1-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

30-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

30-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

30-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

30-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

30-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.