Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Who said it was the teams pointing the finger?

You can contact any agent and ask them. They do not want to have their 5th selection signed before 6th selection to ensure they get a better deal than the pick behind them.

This is another of the many reasons I want a draft 'cap'.

The domino effect needs to be started somewhere. Either at 1 or 32. Sad thing, I think both of those are signed and yet the domino's have not fallen into place.

Bottom line, it takes TWO for a contract to be signed. Putting this on the teams MORE than the agents I feel is incorrect delgation of blame.

There's a good article that explains this and why it takes so flipping long for draftee's to get under contract. I just can't remember where the heck it is.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
15 years ago
My point is someone needs to go first.. IE.. the team that pushes that hardest..

If everyone waits.. no one would ever sign. 😉
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Formo
15 years ago

Yes I am mildly disappointed that neither Raji or Matthews are signed at this point. From the ballclub's perspective, there is no reason that at least Matthews deal isn't done a later first round pick.. but IMO, Raji is more critical in the big picture.

We are two days away from the start of camp and neither is signed.. this isn't panicking.. this is a mild vent that we are sitting here in this position.

There is no reason for it... get these boys into camp on time Russ.

Yes, this is criticism against our front office, we have had no distractions to speak of yet here we sit.

"pack93z" wrote:



I can understand the frustration. But, it's very VERY common for a team to sign their 1st rounder almost MOMENTS before their TC deadline passes.

Lets not forget, also, that Adrian Peterson of the Vikes missed I believe a full week of TC.. Things'll work out, and you'll completely forget how much to the wire this signing went by the 2nd week of the season.
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Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
RaiderPride
15 years ago

Agents. They are the ones holding their clients back from signing because they do not want to be leap frogged by a contract from a player picked later than theres.

It's not the teams, it's the agents.
Agents 60%
Teams 40%

"pack93z" wrote:



Alot of that is pure cop out speak from the teams part.. pointing fingers elsewhere... someone has to set the pace for the first round signings.. and it isn't like we have been burning up the free agent wire or having to deal with alot of reinking our own players.

Yes some of this is on the agents, no doubt... but teams can push this along.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:




"Z"

I think you know how much I respect and like you...

However, the only thing I can add to this thread is....

Thank God You Are Not Negaotaiting And Signing Contracts For The Green Bay Packers.

Calm Down... No Panic. The Packers Know Exactly What They Are Doing, And Are Doing It Very Well.

There is a reason Ted is considered by many GM's, owners, and NFL experts as a "Cap Management Guru."
""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

If everyone waits.. no one would ever sign. ;)

"pack93z" wrote:

And now you know why it takes to the last minute. Well, not like you just NOW figured it out, but that's the reason why. Err, A reason why.

If you sign your client right away and then someone 3 picks down is of similar position gets 7% more money. Your reputation will not be one that brings in new clients in the future. Sure, teams will love you, but clients won't.

Quick question, where do the agents get their money from? Clients, not the teams.

This falls more on the agents than the teams.

I will not disagree that it just needs to be done. I think it's stupid it takes so long. I understand why, I just think it's stupid. The rule of thumb is something like 5% increase from the year before. Go off that. For crying out loud these kids haven't done shit on the professional level and yet it takes to the asses are against the wall to sign them up.
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dfosterf
15 years ago
The fact that we are not getting going in earnest until Saturday has been a good thing for us this year. There is a definite logjam for first-round picks.

Some of this could be reflective of the economy and the loss of the CBA, and the owner's taking a more firm stance.

Most of it is the agents, this year, imo. I have been keeping track of some of the comments that have been made by the various personnel-men. Some of the demands have been goofy, even when the agents know what the remaining rookie cap is left for their team to use. They are trying to negotiate bigger slices of the pie in the parts of the contract not subject to the rookie pool.

The Packers are far from unique in this situation right now. What is troubling, and I have mentioned several times, is the added impact of Crabtree apparently seeking a 3 slot contract as a 10 slot pick. This would have a major impact on the agent or AGENCY for Raji as the 9 pick as to when to sign on that dotted line.

It gets additionally complicated when you start factoring in that many of these agencies are not even considering training camp timetables, but rather have "prix fixe" attitude as to when they will begin negotiations, dependent upon their client's "slot", coupled with concerning themselves with how they look for NEXT YEAR'S prospective client list.

An example would be, Joe Blow agency wants the ability to say, "You see, we didn't just bow down to team "A" when we negotiated player "B's" contract last year, we held their feet to the fire and got him the money he deserved".

It is a sad and broken system, but to isolate our team, regardless of available $$$/room/priorities...a bit unfair at this point, imo.

This is an outstanding article that brings some of what I'm saying into focus

NFP - Why Players Hold Out 

Why players hold out

Whos at fault, the player or the team? Jack Bechta
July 28, 2009


Before I became a full-time agent, I always had a very passionate opinion about holdouts by pro athletes. I couldnt imagine that a deal couldnt be reached and wondered why a player would want to miss one day or one month working for an NFL team. My first thoughts were always that the player and/or his agent were being greedy. And the media often explained the reason behind the holdout by reporting one side, usually the teams.

Once I began representing higher-round draft choices in the early 1990s, I learned firsthand why players hold out: Theyre usually not being treated fairly. Im not saying its always the teams fault, but it often is.

You must understand that when a player is drafted by an NFL team, he has no other option but to negotiate only with that team. If he cant reach an agreement, he doesnt have the right to say, Sorry, Mr. Jones, but I dont think youre treating me fairly so Im going to see if Mr. Snyder will give me a better deal. As a result, teams know they have the leverage in their exclusivity. Additionally, many players and their families panic once camp starts and a deal is not done. Teams also know this to be commonplace, so some will test the players nerves.

A majority of players will listen to their agents when a contract is not reached by the start of camp.

The holdout is not a strategy, its a reaction, the only way a player can say, Youre not treating me fairly. I should add, when rookies dont make it to camp on time it technically should not be called a holdout because theyre not under contract. Veterans under contract can hold out.

When the agents are the problem

There have been certain agents or agencies over the past decade that have a history of not getting their rookie deals done in time for camp. We in the industry know who they are. Their methods are downright militant at times.

They convince their clients that they have to send a message to ownership and that the team needs them more than they need the team.

These agents usually try to get an unreasonable premium by holding the player hostage.

Unfortunately, these guys think theyre working in the best interest of their clients. Most of the time, theyre trying to make names for themselves.


There is also a growing concern and frustration among general managers about one large agency thats working at its own pace and disregarding camp opening dates.

Four GMs and three team negotiators Ive spoken to over the past seven days have told me that this firm is dictating its own timetable for getting deals done based on the order of draft picks they represent and the location of those picks in the first round.

Im being told that theres no sense of urgency from this firm and that it wont start talking seriously until camps open.

My problem is that this strategy is not openly disclosed to players when they sign with the firm. The deals will ultimately get done, as they always do, but players may miss a week or more that they dont have to.

The wait and see
Many agents, and even teams, hate doing deals until they get to see what deals or slots came in above or below them.

They simply hate looking bad among their peers since early deals can be easily leap-frogged by later deals.

So if an agents deal is inferior to others in the same round, his competitors will use it against him while recruiting next years class of clients.

What happens is that everybody waits until the last minute. Theres a lot of that going on right now.

The position premium
Many times, if an agent has a player drafted in the first round lets say a quarterback with the 10th pick -- the agent will make a case that hes worth more than slots 9, 8 and/or 7 because hes a QB.

The team doesnt like it because it has only allocated formulated cap dollars based on the slot, not the players position. But I personally believe that sometimes the slotting system has to be thrown out for QBs.

I also think the agent for WR Michael Crabtree is trying to make the case that the slotting theory doesnt apply to his client because hes a special receiver who would have been a top three pick if he were not injured before the draft.

I dont see a problem with his position, but Im sure the 49ers will.

The bottom line is that the average career of an NFL player lasts 3.5 years. Its the agents job to see that he gets the most he can since he may never make it to a second contract.

Painters, plumbers, teachers and pipefitters have unions. CEOs have high-priced attorneys. Players have agents. Dont begrudge a young man for getting the most the market can bear for his unique services. And dont always believe what you read in the media about a holdout because you might not know what side the information is coming from. Be patient with the process and dont judge a player because he didnt make to camp on time.

The players are usually clueless regarding the politics of team and agent procedures.

This year, I see more holdouts coming as owners tighten their purse strings and the larger agencies are more concerned about their competition than their clients.

There has to be a better way.



I feel the frustration, but like I (hope I) said, it could EASILY be one hell of a lot more complicated then just the Pack FO.

Oh, and f#ck Crabtree...that arrogant prick, lol.
dhazer
15 years ago

yep, not worried about it at alllll

but whats the 3 and the 8 for in your sig zero?

"Jacob" wrote:




I'm guessing its an old siggy and it stood for Dale Earnhardt sr #3 and Jr #8
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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warhawk
15 years ago
I think it's important that Raji came out early and basically said he was not going to cause a problem with signing and was going to do what had to be done not to miss time.
I would be very surprised if Mathews were to become a holdout situation either.
Normally, if there was a problem it would start leaking out. I don't think either of these guys will want to be sitting around a week from now.

Every year at when it gets down to the line the pressure of missing camp time pushes everything forward quicker and all but maybe a couple of 1st rounders get their deals done.

Seems like I see a thread like this every year about now.
"The train is leaving the station."
Rockmolder
15 years ago
Getting closer. Two more players agreed to deals. Oher and Heyward-Bey.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d810d9ec2&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true 
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Old sig or not, Dale Jr will always be number 8 to me. The number has great tradition with the Earnhardt family.


On topic. I thought with both of our players in the first round we'd have them signed with a week or two to spare. Both have expressed they are football first guys and I was hoping that would translate into their agents getting a contract done before the nose meets the wire.
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beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
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